EU army

[Ja'chyra]

It would be unworkable at the minute, it would take decades to get that kind of thing in place.

[Kagemusha]

It would be unworkable at the minute, it would take decades to get that kind of thing in place.

Tell me why?National Armies already have their active command structures.You would have to create only new HQ.Ofcourse shaping those military structures would take time.

[Franconicus]

They should and they will! Although I do not believe that all EU countries will join. GB will not.
There is a cooperation of Germany, France and the BENELUX already.
First of all you must have rules what this army should do. As you know Germany has some selfrestrictions.
Second, they need a common foreign policy as well.

[Kagemusha]

They should and they will! Although I do not believe that all EU countries will join. GB will not.
There is a cooperation of Germany, France and the BENELUX already.
First of all you must have rules what this army should do. As you know Germany has some selfrestrictions.
Second, they need a common foreign policy as well.

If Britain wouldnt join it would shrink the capacity of such army very much ,because GB has the most powerfull army in EU area.
Btw what restrictions German Army still has?

[CBR]

kagemusha:

A EU army can only be possible if EU has the same foreign policy which would mean a stronger EU and I thought you were against that?

Right now EU countries are wasting lots of money when buying equipment so if it could be done in a centralised way that would be a good start.


CBR

[Kagemusha]

kagemusha:

A EU army can only be possible if EU has the same foreign policy which would mean a stronger EU and I thought you were against that?

Right now EU countries are wasting lots of money when buying equipment so if it could be done in a centralised way that would be a good start.


CBR

I wasnt against stronger EU.I was against federal state of EU.
I wiew EU army like monetary Union.Our National armies doesnt anwer the purpose of novadays threads.I wouldnt object that if some country wouldnt like to be part of certain operation ,it coud deny their troops partipication in that operation.Like monetary union,our individual currencies were weak,the same thing could be sayd about our individual armies.The main benefit would be that it would both save both money and resources.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

You want to create a European Superstate? I hope it will fail, and it will fail. An EU army is a bad idea. You know why? Most of your armies suck already. Do you want to combine the suckage and bring the few good armies down (UK...er...that's all I can think of for the EU, Germany's is decent, but it's too small and weak. France's suck, they couldn't even beat the Ivory Coast. BeNeLux has an army?)?
The EU sucks. Just apply for American statehood, you'll be fine

[Kagemusha]

You want to create a European Superstate? I hope it will fail, and it will fail. An EU army is a bad idea. You know why? Most of your armies suck already. Do you want to combine the suckage and bring the few good armies down (UK...er...that's all I can think of for the EU, Germany's is decent, but it's too small and weak. France's suck, they couldn't even beat the Ivory Coast. BeNeLux has an army?)?
The EU sucks. Just apply for American statehood, you'll be fine

Sorry Capo.EU army has nothing to do Europe trying to create somekind of superstate from herself.It would be about Europe taking responsibility of its own self defence.It suprises me that American patrons doesnt like this idea.It would release more American resources to deploy to the Pacific theatre and for War against Terror.

[King Ragnar]

. GB will not.

We hopefully wouldn't, i would see no advantage in doing this, it would cost to much and wouldnt be up and running anytime soon, and there would be to much dissagreement on how it would work ranking etc.

[Redleg]

They should and they will! Although I do not believe that all EU countries will join. GB will not.
There is a cooperation of Germany, France and the BENELUX already.
First of all you must have rules what this army should do. As you know Germany has some selfrestrictions.
Second, they need a common foreign policy as well.

That is exactly why it won't work. Some nations have their own restrictions for what the military can be used for. To merge say the German Army into an EU army would create the necessity to ignore the German Constitution or to have the Constitution amended.

Second common foreign policy for all nations in the army would be required - and I don't believe Europe as a whole can formulate a common foreign policy.

And Third - if England doesn't particpate - most likely other nations will also not particapate and that will lessen the crediblity of such a unified force.

Cooperation is different then a unified command - common cause must be the formost consideration for such a force - and once common cause is missing the force become irrevelant because it will disengrate from within.

[Ja'chyra]

Tell me why?National Armies already have their active command structures.You would have to create only new HQ.Ofcourse shaping those military structures would take time.

Where can I start, what training levels would they impose, what equipment would they use, whose publications would be used, which system of support would be used, which style of operations would be used, whose rank structure would be used, would it be tri-service, could they still swear to Queen and country, so many questions and so meany personalities would mean it would take decades.

Saying you would only need a new HQ is pretty niaive, no offense but if you don't work in that area you don't really know.

[Kagemusha]

Where can I start, what training levels would they impose, what equipment would they use, whose publications would be used, which system of support would be used, which style of operations would be used, whose rank structure would be used, would it be tri-service, could they still swear to Queen and country, so many questions and so meany personalities would mean it would take decades.

Saying you would only need a new HQ is pretty niaive, no offense but if you don't work in that area you don't really know.

What i meant you wouldnt re-organize lets say British army.You could use your own equipment and You could swear to Queen and country as much as you would like.British Army would be an Army group.Commanding of one Army group doesnt effect other Army groups anyway.
It would be up to high command which part of your army would be suitable for certain assignments.Ofcourse in the long run EU would support its own weapons industry for its Army.But you cant say it doesnt work because European Armies differ of each other.You can count how many multi national operations have been succesfully completed after WWII.

[Ja'chyra]

I don't see that working either, the training disparities would be enormous as would the capabilities of each army group, also who else would appoint the command structure.

What you are suggesting is a EU equivalent of NATO, not an EU army, which is more workable.

[Ja'chyra]

And Third - if England doesn't particpate - most likely other nations will also not particapate and that will lessen the crediblity of such a unified force.

I'm sure you mean Britain.

[Kagemusha]

What you are suggesting is a EU equivalent of NATO, not an EU army, which is more workable.

You are right the first phase would be like NATO.You cant create an Army in one day.

[Redleg]

What i meant you wouldnt re-organize lets say British army.You could use your own equipment and You could swear to Queen and country as much as you would like.British Army would be an Army group.Commanding of one Army group doesnt effect other Army groups anyway.
It would be up to high command which part of your army would be suitable for certain assignments.Ofcourse in the long run EU would support its own weapons industry for its Army.But you cant say it doesnt work because European Armies differ of each other.You can count how many multi national operations have been succesfully completed after WWII.

They were successful because the operations were conducted under one centralized command. There are also a few cases where the unified command broke down and the mission was considered a failure. Somilia for one comes to mind.

What you are describing here is not so much as an EU army but another command structure much like NATO. Which is still in place with many of the nations that are members of the EU. To accomplish what your advocating here - all you have to get accomplished is kick the United States out of NATO - or invite the US into the EU - then the command structure and organization is already in place.

Pretty soon Europe will have so many chiefs that there wont be enough Indians to do the work.

[Al Khalifah]

The problems are:
- vast range of hardware used by the various members
- vast difference in quality of training and equipment between various members forces
- different C&C structures
- a standard army pay rate would cause a great economic disparity due to the varied living costs across the EU
- there is no common language for the EU
- the French and British would not agree to the head of the army being from the other nation
- it would require Britain and France to place their strategic forces in the hands of foreign powers

[Kagemusha]

The problems are:
- vast range of hardware used by the various members
- vast difference in quality of training and equipment between various members forces
- different C&C structures
- a standard army pay rate would cause a great economic disparity due to the varied living costs across the EU
- there is no common language for the EU
- the French and British would not agree to the head of the army being from the other nation
- it would require Britain and France to place their strategic forces in the hands of foreign powers

As i stated before in first phase it would be only commanding structure.

[Kagemusha]

They were successful because the operations were conducted under one centralized command. There are also a few cases where the unified command broke down and the mission was considered a failure. Somilia for one comes to mind.

What you are describing here is not so much as an EU army but another command structure much like NATO. Which is still in place with many of the nations that are members of the EU. To accomplish what your advocating here - all you have to get accomplished is kick the United States out of NATO - or invite the US into the EU - then the command structure and organization is already in place.

Pretty soon Europe will have so many chiefs that there wont be enough Indians to do the work.

It has been sayd before that NATO has served its purpose because the Cold War is over and there is now Warsaw pact anymore.The problem with EU countries that arent in NATO is that they will never join it as long as USA is in it.I think its about time that European countries would stand for themselves in defence matters.It would also benefit USA because they could release their troops from Europe.I think while NATO could be abandoned it wouldnt worse therelationship with Europe and USA.In matter of fact,i think this would benefit us both in the long run.