Question to the Province creation specialists

[webbird]

Where else should i look for expierienced people to get a "good" answer ? ;O)

I must say that the dependencies of culture tag, rebel group, faction creator and sub_faction are not totally understood by me right now.
yes i can copy existing variations but like to understand the functionality behind and the possibilities of influence on the ai controlled factions behaviour.
Especialy when creating provinces under rebel control at game start.
Is there something like a "golden rule set" for what can be and what not?
Has the chosen rebel group only be a matching one to the culture tag of the province or has the sub_faction also to be the right one for the chosen rebel group ?? etc.

Can someone who knows it explain it to me?

[khelvan]

Webbird, you are entering an area where we have done a lot of guesswork, and CA is no help to us. It appears to me that rebel definition is rather fluid. You can make faction_creator and default faction different, as well as add rebel units to the rebels defined for the province that are different in culture/faction from either of the above. There appears to be no set rule for this. The name of the general of any starting rebel garrison must match the names list of the sub faction, but other than that it seems like you can come up with any number of combinations.

[webbird]

Thank you Khelvan for your quick repley!
Maybe my posting is not as clear as it should be because of my bad english.
From time to time i work on a remake of linedog`s new province mod where i included a divided Hibernia, Sequani region and the Rhine as Border between Celts and Germans, different but a little like EB, some month ago.It was an included feature of his last version.
From time to time there where CTD`s when the Slave turn of the Ai should take place, sometimes on first turn sometimes four to six turns later, depending on decision of the ai movements. Or when a rebelling province acts as "sleeping" error activation.
Which makes conceivable that the error must be related to the rebel provinces configuration/setup.
After some tests, i am absolut shure that a wrong made combination will be a garantie for instant ctd on the "Slave turn".
Logical is that a province with belgae as chosen rebel group must be a britonic one because belgae are for britons only, any other nonbriton group = ctd
( belgea for britons is not realy logical but thats another matter ;O)
Logical is the use of the right name choice for a choosen sub_faction in the strat file, any wrong name = ctd. But the interaction of subfaction and the others is a miracle for me because CA uses some "exotic" combinations which are not logical at first sight. I say exotic for now but there is also the possiblity for mistakes by CA which maybe the reason of some ctd`s when playing the default imperial campaign. It still happens from time to time and i can only be sure about and judge it with more knowledge about the rules behind.
I think it`s important for maybe eliminating those "slave turn ctd`s" many people expierienced in the past with mods and also vanilla rtw, also it will be interresting in mods like eb where a great amount of provinces are under rebel control and the right combination may help to guide the ai to a controlled expansion of an ai controlled faction with "interresting target provinces" like the historical expansions of seleucid and parthians in the east. i guess it will be never possible to have realy control but it`s a nice way
for trying to entice the ai, to go in the wanted direction.

[webbird]

I realy tried to find out myself, to get a good work running until i was desperate
and asked for aid.
Now i am a little disappointet, but also a little happy, because it seems to be true, that even the most expierieced now nothing more then me.
Thank you very much!

[khelvan]

Webbird, all I can tell you is that problems with names cause CTD before you start the campaign, and problems with provinces usually dump you back to the main menu when you try to start a campaign, allowing -show_err to work. I don't think the problem you are experiencing lies in provinces themselves, or in combinations of faction_creator and default culture.

At least, that is no error I have ever seen when working with provinces, and I've worked with a lot. It seems more like an error in traits or a script error; that is where you often see errors after you have hit "end turn" and the turn moves on to another faction, then CTD's.

The other place this happens is with unit or building definitions. If certain buildings can build units that don't have the correct ownership, or other things defined in buildings, including (I think) problems with hidden resources, you might get this.

[webbird]

Hi Khelvan i hope you can understand that seeing you as the only person showing any reaction in this place on my posting is realy dissapointing.

I tell you exactly how it happens, for example when playing as gaul or britons.
Loading of the "province mod" = error free!
1. turn: i move my units, ai moves units = no error, next turn
2. turn: imove............., ai moves ........= no error, next turn
3. turn: as above as above no error
4. turn: i move units, ai moves all other factions until the "slave turn" should be made by the ai = ctd!
Reload, restart, 1. turn 2. turn, and a similiar end.
Only my self disciplin has saved my pc !
My thoughts where that this special circumstances are may be related to a problem with the provinces under rebel control/slave faction only.
I allways have show err active but there is no error message.
I use the latest cvp from twc and dont made any changes at the traits etc. myself.
I use my latest celtic units added but with them i played once fare after marian reform to test them, without problems. no added hidden resources and the like.

It`s one think to search for a mistake if you are able to recognize it when you see the error but it`s realy another matter when poking around in the dark because of not sufficient knowledge.

Thank`s again for your message!

[khelvan]

Well it really does sound like something is being built, or trying to be built, that causes a problem. I can't see how a province change would wait for three turns and then cause a problem. It sounds like the errors we run into with script or trait changes.

Exactly which files have been altered?

And as to disappointment - well, think about it, how many EB members actually touch the text files? They can be counted on one hand.

[webbird]

Hi Khelvan!
As i mentioned, the basic mod was from linedog and i hoped that he checked his work good enough but.......

Your answer gave me a precious clue!
"....does sound like something is being built, or trying to be built, that causes a problem...."
I made again an exhaustive check of the files and found some errors which where a building related source for possible ctd.
Two settlement had the building blacksmith but not the needed market which is a requirement to build it.
Two settlements had stone walls but not the required level to build them. And some forgotten tabs after charakter/generals, ..value, value ...you know.

The blacksmith i think was the most fitting source for a ctd after more then two turns. after checking the strat of the vanilla imperial campaign i discovered that Hyperborae has also by default a blacksmith without the needed market!!!!
..................................................................................................
blacksmith requires factions { barbarian, ct_carthage, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, } and building_present_min_level market trader

region Hyperboria: building type smith blacksmith !!!!!!!!!
...................................................................................................
Seems that also CA made that error with the settlements building setup.
Also i can not realy understand why CA has no line for a texture in the descr_model_battle for a lot of the egypt and others, about six units!?!

Now i guess if there are more then one error with your files, the show err function does not work because it can only react on one error at the time.

My next test of the campaign worked error free for more then four turns :O)
That way i learned that we have to be very cautiuos to prevent a copy of errors from others work into our own.

Khelvan, again thank you very much!
Maybe you like to try my work yourself? let me know your mail adress and i can send you the provincial campaign.

[khelvan]

I am glad I was able to help.

I would like to try it, but I'm currently in CA and then will only have a few days before I'm gone for a while - as you know since you (should?) have access to our private forum.

When I get back home and am recovered perhaps I will have some time to play. For now I expect my few days will be spent working like a slave on EB.