Madrassa foreigners 'must leave'

[Marcellus]

Madrassa foreigners 'must leave'

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf says all foreign students at madrassas, or religious schools, some 1,400 pupils, must leave the country.
"Any (foreigners) in the madrassas - even dual nationality holders - will leave Pakistan," Gen Musharraf said.

This is the latest in a series of measures the president has announced in a renewed clampdown on extremism.

Madrassas have been in the spotlight after one of the London bombers was reported to have studied at one.

'No misuse'


Gen Musharraf told foreign journalists in Rawalpindi: "They must leave. We will not issue visas to such people.

"We will not allow madrassas to be misused for extremism, hatred being projected in our society."

No new visas will be issued to foreigners wishing to study in the schools.

But the BBC's Aamer Ahmed Khan says it is not clear what effect these measures will have on extremism as the more militant students work at unregulated madrassas that have survived previous crackdowns.

An ordinance would be adopted "in the coming days" on the new move, Gen Musharraf said.

He also told journalists that action would be taken against any of the madrassas that did not register with the authorities.

The president had previously announced all schools must register before December.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4728643.stm

This seems to me rather extreme, forcing every foreign child out of their school whether the school is extremist or not. What do you guys think of this? An extreme step too far or a reasonable step to stop terror and hate?

P.S. can this thread please not turn into one where some people attack the whole religion of Islam and others start talking about Christian extremism?

[Kagemusha]

Madrassas are islamistic schools not puplic schools in original sense.Altough i agree that the children shouldnt suffer because of that what the teachers are lecturing to them.They should fire those teachers that are spreading wahhabism.

[Marcellus]

They should fire those teachers that are spreading wahhabism.

Exactly. This would be more effective too, since this ban only covers foreign students, leaving many Pakistanis under the influence of extremist teachers. Removing the extremist teachers would protect the large number of Pakistani children as well.

[Kagemusha]

Yes.I think this decision from Musharraf is more like publicity stunt to please Western powers.Because there is coming more and more evidence,that suggests that the wahhabism is groving in Pakistan.Musharraf is worried that US will turn its attention more and more to the tribal areas of western Pakistan.

[Divinus Arma]

Woh Woh Woh wait a second fellas. The madrasa is not exactly what you might think! Fire them? The Mullahs? You need to do a little more research my friends. A madrasa is a freaking weapons factory!!!!

None is going to be "fired" from a madrasa. This is hilarious. You guys are killing me with your sheltered views. But I love you anyway.

[Tribesman]

I think this decision from Musharraf is more like publicity stunt to please Western powers.
What you mean like his publicity stunt in S. Waziristan when he put on a big show for Colin Powells visit , then turned around and handed out Korans and Kalashnikovs as soon as the visit was over ?
Still its OK as he doesn't really have to clamp down on extremist terrorists as he declared two days ago that they have already been destroyed root and branch throughout Pakistan .
A very nice man , he said that the London suicide bombers got their ideas not from extremist religeous studies in Pakistan , but from a liberal Western upbringing .

[Kagemusha]

I think Musharraf is dirtbag.But i dont think every Madrassa is "weapons factory".Go see a Indonesian Madrassa,Its like a cristian sunday schooll.And if my memory serves me correct they have little more Madrassas at Indonesia then in Pakistan.Actually if im not demented complitely Indonesia is the world biggest Muslim country.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I think Musharraf is dirtbag.But i dont think every Madrassa is "weapons factory".Go see a Indonesian Madrassa,Its like a cristian sunday schooll.And if my memory serves me correct they have little more Madrassas at Indonesia then in Pakistan.Actually if im not demented complitely Indonesia is the world biggest Muslim country.

And if I'm not demented, the average Muslim in Indonesia is a little more tolerant of the West than those in and around the Cradle of Civilization.

Sounds like Musharraf doesn't want the US Army knocking on his door and realizes what to do to keep that from happening. Cutting down on the export of Islamic fundamentalism is a good way to start.

There may be good or at least nuetral madrassas out there, and they may even be the majority. But if foreign students want nuetral madrassas, I'm sure they can find them elsewheres.

[Kagemusha]

And if I'm not demented, the average Muslim in Indonesia is a little more tolerant of the West than those in and around the Cradle of Civilization.

Sounds like Musharraf doesn't want the US Army knocking on his door and realizes what to do to keep that from happening. Cutting down on the export of Islamic fundamentalism is a good way to start.

There may be good or at least nuetral madrassas out there, and they may even be the majority. But if foreign students want nuetral madrassas, I'm sure they can find them elsewheres.

You have a point that i didnt think first.If someone from lets say Saudi-Arabia puts his children to Pakistani Madrassa.He may have something else on his mind then his childrens education.
Altough in Western Pakistan and Eastern Afghanistan people are basicly same people and they move between Pakistan and Afghanistan like there is no border at all.If Pakistan tryes to stop those children from going in those Madrassas,i wonder how they are going to organize it.

[Red Harvest]

Actually Indonesia has been a hotbed of anti-Christian and anti-west muslim violence and terrorism. I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush for the Indonesian people as a whole, but it was fairly charged when I was in Singapore...and I was there during the time of the Bali bombings. I haven't followed it much in the last year so I don't know how much it has changed.

[Tribesman]

If Pakistan tryes to stop those children from going in those Madrassas,i wonder how they are going to organize it.
That is a good question , furthermore as there are about 5 million Afghans in Pakistan are they also banned from the 10,000+ madrassa in Pakistan ? What of the peoples of Jammu , Kashmir and disputed parts of the Punjab , do they count as Pakistani citizens ?
But more importantly since his stated aims are for "foriegners" to be banned , how can you ban a Pakistani citizen just on the grounds that he has dual nationality , are they going to revoke their Pakistani citizenship ?
Its just window dressing following on from Massharrafs and Bush's phone call and the S.E. Asian terrorism conference .
He relys on the extremists in Baluchi to keep the tribes down and the oil flowing and he knows he cannot do anything at all in the North and North West , he hasn't even shut down the terrorist training camps around his capital or those in the East .
He cannot do anything as he and his military have cultivated a large network of terrorists , a clampdown on terrorism will push those he supports and those he opposes together and lead to serious splits in the military which he relies on to keep him in power .
Ah , but he has arrested over 600 suspected terrorists this week , but they are from an organisation that had his backing until last year ...

Oh dear oh dear , the problems that can arise when you support dictatorships and terrorists .

[Kagemusha]

Actually Indonesia has been a hotbed of anti-Christian and anti-west muslim violence and terrorism. I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush for the Indonesian people as a whole, but it was fairly charged when I was in Singapore...and I was there during the time of the Bali bombings. I haven't followed it much in the last year so I don't know how much it has changed.

Ofcourse im not saying they are somekind of saints there.My friend lived there for year and a half and came back last month.He didnt felt anykind of religious hatred there,but there are nut cases everywhere.What bugs me most in these religious terrorists is that basicly they just sprayd hate everywhere.They are the minority,but if they succeed their actions make majoritys in religions hate each other.And hate makes people blind.Suddenly then they are the majority.

[bmolsson]

On the Indonesian issue.
It's a very large country with a large variety of ethnic groups. The largest population on Java is mainly muslim and very moderate and friendly towards the west and other religions. In fact the Islamic Javanese tradition have a very large portion of Buddhism in itself.
On some areas there are more fanatic groups, creating sectarian conflicts now and then. The most famous are Ambon (Christians), Poso (Muslims), Aceh (Muslims) and South Kalimantan (Christians). The worst conflict with religion used as the biggest excuse is of course Ambon, while the most recent is in Poso.
The islamic boarding schools can mostly be found in Java and there are horribible and fanatic schools, of which Abu Bakar Bashyir has one, and there are very moderate and pleasant schools doing a great social job.

There is a rather large conflict blowing up in Indonesia between some moderate and reformed islamic movements and the more conservative islamic school. Hot issues are polygamy, womens rights and Sharia law.

Indonesia will have a rather heavy confrontation between the liberal and the conservative muslims. Hopefully it will be in debates and media instead of the streets.......