How much does retraining cost?

**bretwalda** · 07-29-2005, 13:19

I wonder - when I am short on cash especially - how much does retraining cost?

1.) How much if part of the men need to be rebuilt, and

2.) How much when the unit is at full size but I need an armor / weapon upgrade?

Thx 4 the info!

**BAD** · 07-29-2005, 13:31

Damned interesting question. Someone who knows answer please. I can never be bothered to waste a turn of production to work out how much it is. =P A good guess would be it's the percenatge cost of what's missing from the unit. And retraining for weapon and armour is free.

**Martok** · 07-29-2005, 16:08

Originally Posted by BAD

Damned interesting question. Someone who knows answer please. I can never be bothered to waste a turn of production to work out how much it is. =P A good guess would be it's the percenatge cost of what's missing from the unit. And retraining for weapon and armour is free.

That's correct. Purchasing units for multiplayer/custom battles is a different story of course; but in the singleplayer campaign, you only pay for the men lost in that unit.

**EatYerGreens** · 08-07-2005, 02:19

Slight change of subject but thought I'd post it here rather than start a new thread.

What happens if I retrain a unit in a province which is not as teched up as where they originated from? Does it totally strip their starting armour/morale bonuses or do the post-battle logs show that the unit is actually a blend of armoured and unarmoured types?

For instance, 100 man unit, Armour +1, loses 55 men. It is then retrained at a centre with no armourer (*). On average the unit is now armour 0.45 but its icon will portray it as completely unarmoured as it expects an integer value and rounds the fraction down. The logfile for the next battle it participates in should display the armour/weapon bonuses for each individual in the unit and I'm wondering if it correctly retains the armour level for the 45 previous survivors?

There's a trick whereby dropping an un-upgraded unit onto an upgraded one, to merge them, results in a unit shown as possessing the upgrade in full. I suspect that, internally, it's still a blend and the unupgraded individuals will likely be the ones to fall as casualties in a subsequent action. I'm speculating though, this is just a point about the averageing of acquired valour and upgrades in mergers of broken units.

* Footnote:- You may find yourself in this situation where all the battles are happening some distance from your 'main base' training centre. Ports are getting destroyed where provinces are being taken, so the round trip to base and back to the front may be several years, overland, to get to the nearest port. To cut down the travelling time, you build the relevant training centre closer to the action but it will be an additional 4 years just to get the most basic level armourer ready and it maybe silver/gold armoured troops which you want to avoid reverting to zero or level-1 armour. Yes it's quicker to build a port at the frontline province and ship them back properly instead but, in the case of the Byzantines, the 'home base' is typically preoccupied with training more advanced unit types but I want to replenish losses of the more basic varieties at the same time, since they do the bulk of the work.

Having seen the recent 'armour in the desert' thread, they may even be times where one might want a unit, headed for that environment, to be stripped of armour to minimise the fatigue penalty. So, if this feature works the way I think it does, it may even be of some benefit.

**m52nickerson** · 08-07-2005, 05:35

I normally don't retrain, unless I find my self short on money. I just make a new unit which I send to the front. That way it can be used to fill the loses to a number of the same units.

**BAD** · 08-07-2005, 12:29

@EatYerGreens

I think if you retrain an upgraded unit at a province without the same upgrade opportunities they still have the same weapons and Armour upgrades as the original guys. I guess the survivors salvage the weapons and armour after the battle (even if they lost xD). I'm not sure though. That's why I always make sure I reinforce these units with un-upgraded units, hey it's war, nothings meant to be fair.

**EatYerGreens** · 08-07-2005, 14:26

Originally Posted by m52nickerson

I normally don't retrain, unless I find my self short on money. I just make a new unit which I send to the front. That way it can be used to fill the loses to a number of the same units.

Good thinking!

I don't know why but it has only recently occurred to me to do it this way. Force of habit from the retraining usually involving run of the mill units - I send them home for retraining as there's generally a full-strength exact replacement on garrison duty in the province next door, so I just have to do position swaps until the damaged unit gets home.

It's a completely different matter when the unit I want to replenish is a general's Katank unit. The tech to retrain these at all is only available in one place but, at the same time, I can't afford to take a high-starred general off the front line and leave a 1,2,3 star substitute in charge for a few years. The unit merge trick means the freshly trained unit just has to do a tour of all the generals needing a top-up and, if anything's left, it can return to base to be topped up itself. Rinse and repeat.

Originally Posted by BAD

I think if you retrain an upgraded unit at a province without the same upgrade opportunities they still have the same weapons and Armour upgrades as the original guys.

Are you sure? Maybe I last tried this in STW and did see the unit degraded. I'm pretty sure I haven't taken the same risk in MTW but I'm encouraged by hearing that this will work okay.

The upshot of the averageing business I referred to before is that retraining a unit whose casualties were less than 50%, I expect it to be shown as retaining its upgrade. OTOH, replenishment of losses over 50% and the retrained unit will appear to have lost them. Either way, they'll actually be a 'blend' of each type and this should show up in its record within the battle logfile.

Originally Posted by BAD

I guess the survivors salvage the weapons and armour after the battle (even if they lost xD). I'm not sure though. That's why I always make sure I reinforce these units with un-upgraded units, hey it's war, nothings meant to be fair.

I can't argue with your reasoning there!

**Geezer57** · 08-07-2005, 16:49

Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Slight change of subject but thought I'd post it here rather than start a new thread.

What happens if I retrain a unit in a province which is not as teched up as where they originated from? Does it totally strip their starting armour/morale bonuses or do the post-battle logs show that the unit is actually a blend of armoured and unarmoured types?

I'm going from memory based on old foum posts, but it definitely seems to work this way in my games: valor/morale is tracked by the individual fighting man, but armor/weapon upgrades are tracked by the unit. When an upgraded (but depleted) unit is retrained in a province with only the basic build structures, the unit retains its armor/weapon upgrades, but any valor or morale upgrades from combat or the original build province are not given to the "raw" recruits that replace the veteran casualties.

For example: a valor 3 unit of FMAA is worn down to twenty men (from 60), then retrained in a "basic" province back to full strength. The veterans in the unit will retain their 3 valor, but the new troops will be zero valor, so the unit average will probably factor out somewhere near 1. Any weapon/armor upgrades are retained.

**Martok** · 08-07-2005, 18:36

Originally Posted by Geezer57

I'm going from memory based on old foum posts, but it definitely seems to work this way in my games: valor/morale is tracked by the individual fighting man, but armor/weapon upgrades are tracked by the unit. When an upgraded (but depleted) unit is retrained in a province with only the basic build structures, the unit retains its armor/weapon upgrades, but any valor or morale upgrades from combat or the original build province are not given to the "raw" recruits that replace the veteran casualties.

For example: a valor 3 unit of FMAA is worn down to twenty men (from 60), then retrained in a "basic" province back to full strength. The veterans in the unit will retain their 3 valor, but the new troops will be zero valor, so the unit average will probably factor out somewhere near 1. Any weapon/armor upgrades are retained.

Yep, that is correct.

**ichi** · 08-07-2005, 19:29

Geezer has it right

valor/morale is tracked by the individual fighting man, but armor/weapon upgrades are tracked by the unit. When an upgraded (but depleted) unit is retrained in a province with only the basic build structures, the unit retains its armor/weapon upgrades, but any valor or morale upgrades from combat or the original build province are not given to the "raw" recruits that replace the veteran casualties.

So does BAD

it's the percenatge cost of what's missing from the unit. And retraining for weapon and armour is free.

I use retraining to a limited extent, usually opportunistically, but I rarely retrain a unit when I can build a new one. Royal Family guys get retrained, as do General nits with god qualities once they are decimated. And if I have units sitting in a province that isn't training new units and it would give them an upgrade, hey, why not.

I'd rather train new units and combine veteran units - retraining mixes vets and FNGs together into one unit, while combining can make units of all vets (if you combine two veteran units, of course).

Plus, IMO combining is easier to manage than sending units back to a specific province.

Check out this thread Combining Units

ichi