Possible use for peasants?

[Kommodus]

I've thought of a possible use for peasants, and while I've never tried it before, I wonder if anyone here has. Some use them as cannon fodder and many (including me) use them only for garrison duty, but one additional possibility might be to use them as battle-winners.

Now before you declare me insane, hear me out: I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed that when AI armies autoresolve battles against each other, the number of troops involved on each side seems to be one of the main factors. This explains why some provinces can remain rebellious for a long time, guarded only by thousands of peasants, while the AI factions fruitlessly send smaller armies of much better troops to get pitchfork-whacked by the undisciplined mobs. Now, you and I both know that a few elite battalions would send the backwater yokels into a chain rout - but the autoresolver doesn't know that!

So, seeing as peasants have such small training and upkeep costs, might it be possible to train vast hordes of them, then steamroll over Europe, autoresolving every battle along the way? You probably wouldn't even need to hook them up with a decent general; just keep their numbers up.

Like I said, I haven't tried it, and probably won't, since the battles are (to me) the game's real attraction, and this tactic wouldn't allow any to be fought - all the action would happen on the strategic map. I'm just curious whether or not anyone has tried it, and if so, what the results were.

[EatYerGreens]

Regarding the autoresolve business:- you read it here first.

The referenced post is a long one but the relevant para is just after the second quote. EDIT#2: Actually, it's after the third quote.

Personally, I'd like to see a discussion about how the autocalc algorithm actually works and is it fair compared to the 16 vs 16 (with or w/o reinforcements) battles the player has to do but I don't want to side-track your thread and may post a fresh one about this, another time. Could potential respondents please stick to the discussion at hand?

EDIT: yet more clumsy typos

[PittBull260]

i use peasants to keep a province's loyalty up

[yesdachi]

Unique idea, a peasant army might work with a good general unit, I’m not sure but a good general seems to factor into the autocalc.

Unless cornered, the AI seems to run or jump into a castle whenever they are significantly outnumbered. I could see an enemy faction being pushed all the way to their boarders (by a bunch of peasants with pitchforks throwing rotting food) and then a huge battle.

Side note on EYG’s link: it is interesting to see how others play. I sooo would never take out a paper and pencil to figure out the $ of province vs. another with different governors etc. but if it works for you that’s what counts! I think it is great that so many different people can play so many different styles on just one game. It would be fun to hear others sound off on ways they play that other people might think alien . But perhaps that is a topic for a new thread.

Back on topic: Go peasant army, GO! Actual horse in peasant army but replace sword and goofy look with pitchfork and goofy look.

[EatYerGreens]

Side note on EYG’s link: it is interesting to see how others play. I sooo would never take out a paper and pencil to figure out the $ of province vs. another with different governors etc. but if it works for you that’s what counts!

Typical Scorpio trait, alledgedly - you have to extract maximum value from these things. Or put it another way - I'm a tightwad.

Actually, in spite of such efforts, I'm nearly always skint in the game because there's always stuff needing to be built and I've yet to progress a campaign far enough to see trade bulk up the bank balance much into the 5-figure range. Whenever I see a screenshot with millions in the bank I mutter to myself about cheat codes or it's because the person has monstered 7/10ths of the map, has fortresses left right and centre, so they've piles coming in but nothing left to spend it on... If I don't lose the hard drive again, or revert to my main obsession (flight-sims), one of these days I may get to finish a campaign...

Don't let my lack of game experience put you off though - I see all sorts of possibilities and tend to talk about them whether or not I've actually attempted half the stuff I suggest others to try. Sort of 'thinking out loud'. If it keeps the conversation moving along or elicits some kind of corrective response from a more experienced player, then all the better for everyone who reads the thread.

[antisocialmunky]

I'm just curious, has anyone gotten bored enough to try and win a game in early with just Royal Cavalry, first tier units, and the peasant family of units? I bet that'd make a facinating game.

"Sir, we are being stormed by England's crack peasant army!"

I mean, if you think about it. England can already take out the French is 2 turns, and Germany will fall apart after two defeats. Italy is too small...

[Procrustes]

.... Whenever I see a screenshot with millions in the bank I mutter to myself about cheat codes or it's because the person has monstered 7/10ths of the map, has fortresses left right and centre, so they've piles coming in but nothing left to spend it on... ....

It's actually not that hard if you set up a trade network. Play a game as the Danes, early. Take Scandinavia and slowly work your way around the Baltic. Don't get into wars with your neighbors, pick on rebles where you can. And start building long boats, ports, and trade posts. Upgrade your trade buildings as you go, stay at peace with everyone, build lots of ships and connect yourself to as many ports as you can. You'll be rolling in dough before 1150.

[VikingHorde]

I find peasants useless, thats why I removed them from my mod (rebel only). They are fun as cannon fodder, but I prefer fighting real soldiers.

[Budwise]

Why don't you just have a good 16 unit army and try the peasant spam like you suggested, that way if you are attacked, you have a chance.

[Del Arroyo]

The Auto-Calc DOES realize that peasants suck hard, but not the full magnitude of the suckiness. So an all peasant army in auto-calc would take horrendous casualties but might win. I've auto-calced and won battles that, when I fought them out personally, no matter how many times I tried, were unwinnable.

One example of this was 2 UM, 1 Peas, 1 Archers and a depleted unit (like seven-eight men) of Jinetes, attacking vs. King's Royal Knights. Playing it out it was pretty hard to get my units from running, but I won the auto-calc.

Another example was 2 Spears, 1 CS, 2 Xbows, and 1 Jinetes, defending against 2 Royal Knights, 1 Feudal Knights, and a depleted mix of UM, FMAA, and Peasants. I must have played this battle about 20 times and each time the 3 units of cavalry were too much to handle. At least one of them would find a local advantage and flank one of my spears, and this would end it, no matter what I did. Even if I fought in the woods. But on auto-calc-- Victory!

Since discovering this, I have tried not to abuse it.

DA

[Patron]

Peasants are cannon fodder and work especially with elite units that won't flee when the peasants do.

They can be used to stop a cavalry charge, so your men at arms don't have to suffer the direct charge.

Stopping any charge. Peasants have a strong charge which is better than many units and can give these units a better advantage.

Expendable flankers, flanking is often dangerous, especially in large battles where your flankers could end up surrounded. Peasants are a worthy subtitute and their numbersm ena you can easily surround an enemy unit and break it.

Helping small elite units. Small elite units tend to be surrounded by several units drastically reducing their effectiveness. Peasants can keep them at bay allowing your elite units to focus more on killing instead of self preservation.

Chase off archers. AI archers usually flee from peasants and if they do engage they will be caught up for a while and won't be able to fire.

Preventing rebellion after you've conquerred a province, so more expensive units don't have to suffer. Spies are cheaper in the long run though.


Spearmen are much better than peasants at everything apart from there needing to be a spearmaker, which is only 4 turns up from a fort and their slightly higher upkeep.

[Budwise]

Peasants are cannon fodder and work especially with elite units that won't flee when the peasants do.

They can be used to stop a cavalry charge, so your men at arms don't have to suffer the direct charge.

Stopping any charge. Peasants have a strong charge which is better than many units and can give these units a better advantage.

Expendable flankers, flanking is often dangerous, especially in large battles where your flankers could end up surrounded. Peasants are a worthy subtitute and their numbersm ena you can easily surround an enemy unit and break it.

Helping small elite units. Small elite units tend to be surrounded by several units drastically reducing their effectiveness. Peasants can keep them at bay allowing your elite units to focus more on killing instead of self preservation.

Chase off archers. AI archers usually flee from peasants and if they do engage they will be caught up for a while and won't be able to fire.

Preventing rebellion after you've conquerred a province, so more expensive units don't have to suffer. Spies are cheaper in the long run though.


Spearmen are much better than peasants at everything apart from there needing to be a spearmaker, which is only 4 turns up from a fort and their slightly higher upkeep.

True, True - But them routing right off the bat and destroying the moral of your whole army isn't really worth the little good they can do. Its better just to pee on them.

[Mount Suribachi]

I use UMs as garrisons. IIRC, they give your province an extra boost to loyalty over other garrison units. And, if push comes to shove, UMs are better in a fight than Peasants.

But the idea of using peasants for cheap flankers isn't bad. Being flanked gives any unit a morale hit, regardless of the quality of flankers.

[Procrustes]

I use UMs as garrisons. IIRC, they give your province an extra boost to loyalty over other garrison units. And, if push comes to shove, UMs are better in a fight than Peasants.

If I'm not mistaken, it's the buildings that make UM's and MS's that give the province a loyatly boost - 60 UM's will not give more loyalty to a province than 60 men of another type of unit.

[antisocialmunky]

True, True - But them routing right off the bat and destroying the moral of your whole army isn't really worth the little good they can do. Its better just to pee on them.

I think you totally underestimate peasants. They can soil themselves thank you very much, or come presoiled if that is to your liking.

[Roark]

I found a use for Peasants that is working great for me at the moment: morale killers.

When I have a high-command general leading an attack, I'll often follow-up with a bum run of Peasants, just flooding the battlefield and getting into all the cracks (behind the enemy, on their flanks, everywhere). If the Peasants are at 3-4 "trickledown valour", I find that their decent charge puts those enemy units one step closer to routing. I like to inflict as many morale penalties as possible.

I never used to use them for anything except garrison duty, but this recent discovery has changed my mind. Cheap as chips.

(I am playing on Hard, btw, not Expert)

[Martok]

I think you totally underestimate peasants. They can soil themselves thank you very much, or come presoiled if that is to your liking.

LOL!! Good one, antisocialmonkey.


I don't go for peasants, simply because they weren't really involved in medieval warfare that much. If I need cannon fodder or cheap flankers, well then that's what spearmen and urban militia are for (or clansmen if you got 'em). Of course it's a moot point in my case, as I play Medieval with the XL mod.....