3 Reasons why the Danes are way too Good...

[Del Arroyo]

...even in Late Period.

(1) The ability to recruit cheap, low-upkeep Vikings from *ANY province on the map with a castle*. They beat the sh*t, overall, out of any other low-level unit, and with sufficient bow and cav support and a decent numerical advantage can pretty much swarm and annihilate almost anything else. Their morale is good so they usually don't run.

(2) *2* GA points for every *1* province you conquer. Which means that while most factions will have to conquer 2/3rds of the map to achieve their goals, you can sit pretty on Scandanavia and the British Isles and laugh at all of them as you rack up the points and rake in record trade income, which in Late Period, also racks up the points.

(3) High-Command-Rating Uber-Heirs. Compared to other factions, they have LOTS of sons and most of them are 4-5-6 stars. Granted, their piety leaves something to be desired, but it beats the hell out of the traumatised dreadful nutjobs you get as the Polish, or the inbred fanatical weenies you get as Aragon. I remember that playing as Aragon, my largest source of really good generals actually came from when I bribed a bunch of former Danish heirs after a civil war.

So, like, what gives? It seems that things would be more balanced if Vikings were restricted to Scandanavian provinces and they got fewer GA points per conquer.

DA

[Pericles]

If you like playing Danes, then use Gnome editor and open Viking_unit text file and increase cost, upkeep and build time for Dane units.

Also, give all other factions MORE starting florins (say 500,000).

Wes' Medmod uses homelands for special units, so you can't build Vikings everywhere.

Cheers!

[Del Arroyo]

Well, what I did was I took the Late campaign, left them with only Denmark, degraded all the buildings that were over level 1 (including taking them from a citadel to a castle), and gave them 400 starting cash instead of 4000 (playing on Expert). There were some slow years at the start, but by the 1370's I'd taken all Brittania minus Ireland, and most of the northern coast of Europe. Now I just have to build my trade up even further, and take a few opportune provinces. I'm already ahead on the GA counter.

Not to say that it wasn't challenging or fun (it was both ), I just thought that starting the way I did I'd have a harder time catching up.

A fun thing to be able to edit might be the max number of Conquest points you can get counted towards GA. Like maybe some factions could get more points per conquer, but have a lesser max score in this area.

DA

[PittBull260]

I hate the danes, whenever I play they AWALYS have what I call "the danish explosion", that's when they just start conquering almost all of europe in like a decade and become the most powerful empire on the map....then I have to waist a ton of men to defeat them, this ALWAYS happens, I duno how and why..

[NodachiSam]

Like this?


I hear that some players never see them do anything.

[PittBull260]

tahts exactly wat im talkin about, I hate the danes! lol

[Ironside]

I hear that some players never see them do anything.

It's usually that they only take Sweden for me. I did some light modding so they always take Sweden now.
But if they take any other province, they'll start to become superpower.

I think it's the AI for them that's good

[Martok]

I hate the danes, whenever I play they AWALYS have what I call "the danish explosion", that's when they just start conquering almost all of europe in like a decade and become the most powerful empire on the map....then I have to waist a ton of men to defeat them, this ALWAYS happens, I duno how and why..

Really? They almost never get very big in my games--at most, they just conquer Scandanavia and *maybe* a few of the Baltic and/or German provinces. More often that not, however, they just sit there in Scandanavia and do nothing. Do you usually play with BKB or something?

[Martok]

It's usually that they only take Sweden for me. I did some light modding so they always take Sweden now.
But if they take any other province, they'll start to become superpower.

I think it's the AI for them that's good

Also, don't forget that their starting position is easily defensible, Denmark and Sweden gets you good trade income, they get +1 Vikings if they have Norway (not to mention +1 Longboats from Denmark), and access to a number of nice nearby provinces for them to conquer.

Oh yeah, and they also have far and away the best infantry roster in the Early period. Vikings, Landsmen, and Carls are all very good, and the Huscarles are just ridiculous! God, I love those guys.....

[Patron]

I've never seen a danish explosion. When the AI plays them they always go bankrupt and drown in their own heirs.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Really? They almost never get very big in my games--at most, they just conquer Scandanavia and *maybe* a few of the Baltic and/or German provinces. More often that not, however, they just sit there in Scandanavia and do nothing.

That's what happens in my game's too. They just sit and let their uber-generals rot in Denmark for the whole of the game. Often they won't even take Sweden and Norway. Shame, as any human player knows what a killer mini-empire a united Scandinavia is.

[PittBull260]

Really? They almost never get very big in my games--at most, they just conquer Scandanavia and *maybe* a few of the Baltic and/or German provinces. More often that not, however, they just sit there in Scandanavia and do nothing. Do you usually play with BKB or something?

yea i play the bkb mod, that might be it.

[LoboSoulman]

In the pic nodachisam has posted what are the...giant ports?
I have never seen anything like them.
I loved playing as the danes but i get to sad when u loose your husculres and joms vikings.

[Del Arroyo]

True, when the AI plays them they seem to do just about nothing. I'm playing unmodded VI.

[King Bob VI]

Yes, often they sit in denmark and go bankrupt mostly due to paying the upkeep for all their princes' bodyguards, but in some games, such as a recent game I had as the Byz, the can become quite a power.

[littlebktruck]

In my games they rarely leave Denmark, and if they do they attack Saxony and the HRE's baltic holdings rather than Sweden.

[NodachiSam]

In the pic nodachisam has posted what are the...giant ports?
I have never seen anything like them.
I loved playing as the danes but i get to sad when u loose your husculres and joms vikings.

Oh yea that. I downloaded the shogun mod and it seems to have overwritten the port graphics with the japanese looking ones. I should probably inform barroca about that...
It didn't really affect gameplay as far as I can tell... unless maybe that mod has somehow caused what the Danes are doing. Other than that it is vanilla MTW VI with the patch.

I played my first game with the Danes on early vanilla MTW no VI and those Vikings came in handy. Dammit though, in the game the Danes have taken moscovy and most of poland now!

[Mus]

Regarding what people are calling "The Dane Explosion" when I see it its oftentimes because one of states the Danes are trading with has an empire wide rebellion because of the the stupid rebellion code (faction leader led amphibious invasion and got cutoff resulting in massive empire wide rebellions). The Danes land, clean up the low quality rebel stacks, and then sit pretty on all their new lands.

[dgfred]

True, when the AI plays them they seem to do just about nothing. I'm playing unmodded VI.

Same here . If I don't play as the Danes ,
I usually play as HRE and that is bad news for them indeed . My other
favorite is France and then I will slam through Friesland and Saxony and
take them too! . Flanders and Sweden is a $/trade monster .

[Pericles]

Well, what I did was I took the Late campaign, left them with only Denmark, degraded all the buildings that were over level 1 (including taking them from a citadel to a castle), and gave them 400 starting cash instead of 4000 (playing on Expert). There were some slow years at the start, but by the 1370's I'd taken all Brittania minus Ireland, and most of the northern coast of Europe. Now I just have to build my trade up even further, and take a few opportune provinces. I'm already ahead on the GA counter.

Not to say that it wasn't challenging or fun (it was both ), I just thought that starting the way I did I'd have a harder time catching up.

A fun thing to be able to edit might be the max number of Conquest points you can get counted towards GA. Like maybe some factions could get more points per conquer, but have a lesser max score in this area.

DA

I agree it would be good to be able to edit conquest points.

If you are still winning as the Danes, I highly recommend giving all other factions 500,000 florins. By doing this, the AI doesn't have to worry about building a trading network, only the human player does.

I did that when I played as the Turks. The AI spanked me badly. I lost the campaign when the Golden Horde and Byz invaded my lands all at once. Then when I lost two provinces a civil war broke out. It wasn't pretty.

I don't mind losing - it forces me to try out new strategies...

Man, I love playing MTW...

[NodachiSam]

I tested by playing Denmark and taking Sweden and I only got one GA point, not two, but maybe the scandanavian provinces are worth less, GA-wise.

[antisocialmunky]

Usually the Italians and Spanish go nuts in vanillia, the Danes sit there veging.

[dgfred]

Usually the Italians and Spanish go nuts in vanillia, the Danes sit there veging.

I have vanilla and most games the Italians are VERY strong . Spain occaisionally gets in a slugging match with the Aloms and
doesn't get so big. In my current game as HRE (hard) I have taken Denmark,
Sweden, Norway, Pomerania, Prussia and Silesia . I am gearing up
to slam into France just before the next conquest count. My biggest
competitors are Italy (large, weak armies) and the Byzantines (most GA pts
so far) Spain has been contained and both Spain and Italy have been
excommunicated for destroying Aragon. But Italy has remained strong . The date is 1137.

[Budwise]

Yeah, well, I would love the Danes too if I could Crusade - also, I'm retarded and don't know how to use the "ALL CAN CRUSADE" mod.

I don't crusade often but I would at least like the option.

[Budwise]

Don't forget that with VI installed, their music is different and freaking SWEET!!!. I still love listening to the Viking Battle and Victory. I often overwrite the Arab Victory with it and one Euro Battle music with the battle song. WOOT.

I'm listening to the battle while I write. Seriously, listening to this I feel like I could kick Polands A##. Well, I guess ANYONE could do that.

[bretwalda]

You need version 1 then. Download it and unzip. Replace the files with the ones you find in the zip. Don't forget to backup!

Yeah, well, I would love the Danes too if I could Crusade - also, I'm retarded and don't know how to use the "ALL CAN CRUSADE" mod.

I don't crusade often but I would at least like the option.

[ToranagaSama]

...even in Late Period.

(1) The ability to recruit cheap, low-upkeep Vikings from *ANY province on the map with a castle*. They beat the sh*t, overall, out of any other low-level unit, and with sufficient bow and cav support and a decent numerical advantage can pretty much swarm and annihilate almost anything else. Their morale is good so they usually don't run.

(2) *2* GA points for every *1* province you conquer. Which means that while most factions will have to conquer 2/3rds of the map to achieve their goals, you can sit pretty on Scandanavia and the British Isles and laugh at all of them as you rack up the points and rake in record trade income, which in Late Period, also racks up the points.

(3) High-Command-Rating Uber-Heirs. Compared to other factions, they have LOTS of sons and most of them are 4-5-6 stars. Granted, their piety leaves something to be desired, but it beats the hell out of the traumatised dreadful nutjobs you get as the Polish, or the inbred fanatical weenies you get as Aragon. I remember that playing as Aragon, my largest source of really good generals actually came from when I bribed a bunch of former Danish heirs after a civil war.

So, like, what gives? It seems that things would be more balanced if Vikings were restricted to Scandanavian provinces and they got fewer GA points per conquer.

DA

Your point in the last paragraph was well taken in the development and testing of the MedMod (3.14). There was MUCH tweaking and testing of province configuration and starting resources in an attempt to get the balance just so.

The result was, the Danes can be one of, if not the most challenging factions to play during the early Turns.

They are tiny, have the HRE directly on their border, in addition to being surrounded by stronger factions with the exception of a few attractive rebel provinces. Only thing is taking the rebels means leaving yourself open to attack; good news is the game is hard-coded that the HRE will not attacking the Danes (in the beginning stages). If they did they would just steamroll over them. For me, the fact and reality is rather irksome as the HRE behaviour is so illogical; but, given that it makes for a good challenging game.

It can be very challenging, simply trying to stave off rebellion in your starting provinces and even more so in the rebel provinces which you *must* take and hold to get of the ground. All the while the threat of invaision is imminent, particularly with the HRE looming next door (though, they NEVER attack).

Staying off the *cheese*, and with a little role-playing, as well as utilizing the MedMod, the Danes can be THE most challenging faction. Actually, they are the second, as the Scilians are the first most challenging, IMO.

Yes, playing with Hardcore Rules and no cheese, its EASY to get financially buried by the prodigous rate at which the Danes produce heirs. Very tough to survive the early Turns; but, if you do, then playing Harcore, which requires that ALL Govenors be of *Royal Blood*, all those heirs come in right handy.

Though, if GA is what you enjoy, better check the threads as it used to be broken with the MedMod (or something like that). I'm not a GA player, so I really don't know what the status is.

The Medmod is a truly *balanced* mod in every way, which makes it extremely tough.

Luck!

~ToranagaSama