Beduin Camel Warriors

[PittBull260]

wow these are probably the best units for their price...I did a custom battle, beduin camels vs boyars, 1 unit vs 1 unit, same valour and the beduin camels won...I was impresed, they also beat armenian heavy cavalry (both on lush land not desert) so these must be even better in the desert, very impressive cavalry unit. I definently recomend these to anyone who likes to play as alhomads/egyptians, they're very useful and cheap

[Del Arroyo]

I think they do lack shock value vs. non-cav units, are slow, and die kind of quick if they're pitted against infantry. I was a bit wary of them the first time I faced them on the battlefield, but generally they don't hurt me too much.

[Geezer57]

Wait a sec, you should replay that Beduin Camel Warrior vs. Boyar custom battle again, only this time you control the Boyars. They should skirmish against the camels, rather than melee, and will turn the camels into dogfood in short order. Even the slowest cavalry in the game is faster than camels, while the humpback ones are nice big juicy targets for those little pointy sticks.

[PittBull260]

Wait a sec, you should replay that Beduin Camel Warrior vs. Boyar custom battle again, only this time you control the Boyars. They should skirmish against the camels, rather than melee, and will turn the camels into dogfood in short order. Even the slowest cavalry in the game is faster than camels, while the humpback ones are nice big juicy targets for those little pointy sticks.

yea but I was testing them 1 on 1 in fighting not doing hit n run :)

of course anyone can beat an army of camels with the right infantry, but I'm saying if u use camels they are pretty useful against other cavalry units, specially in the deserts

[ichi]

Even the slowest cavalry in the game is faster than camels, while the humpback ones are nice big juicy targets for those little pointy sticks.

Actually, Camels share the same march speed (9) as Kataphraktoi and Gothics. These three also share the same charge speed (16). As a matter of fact, Camels run faster (14) than either Kats or Gothics (12).

Still, your point that Camels are slow is correct.

Camels are a great desert unit and very effective against cavalry, especially once they get to V4 (or morale of 8).

I've always found that their real problem isn't enemy infantry, but missile fire. The best way to kill Camels is with arrows. That's why Boyars should win head to head, shoot then fight.

ichi

[antisocialmunky]

Yeah, Camels can handle infantry almost decently so, that's not thier main weakness, it is missile fire. I think the easiest to exploit camel weakness is moral. I think that the best solution against them is a combination of archers, cavalrym and infantry. Give them atleast 25% casualties first. You can then lure them by your infantry with cavalry, engage with cavalry and slam them in the side with infantry and rout them.

Their morale sucks and cavalry like knights can sometimes out morale them because even with 0 or 1 attack, their defense is high enough to effectively count the 5 attack they get...

Simply: Their morale isn't great and they suck out of desert.

Feudal knights.
Charge 8 Attack 4 Defence 3 Armour 4 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 8 Cost 425 Support cost 105

Chivalric knights.
Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 5 Armour 7 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 8 Cost 675 Support cost 85

Gothic knights
Charge 4 Attack 4 Defence 7 Armour 9 Speed 9, 12, 16 Morale 8 Cost 725 Support cost 60

Lancers
Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 7 Armour 9 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 8 Cost 850 Support cost 85

Bedouin camel warriors
Charge 6 Attack 2 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 9, 14, 16 Morale 0 Cost 125 Support cost 40

If you mod the camels an AP weapon or gave them 4 valour, then they'd be very good instead of okay.

[Martok]

Their morale sucks and cavalry like knights can sometimes out morale them because even with 0 or 1 attack, their defense is high enough to effectively count the 5 attack they get...

Simply: Their morale isn't great and they suck out of desert.

Which is why it's nice that they're so cheap. Seriously, when I play as the Egyptians or Turks (not that I play the latter very often), I usually have a crapload of Bedouins in my desert armies. No, they don't hold up well against heavy cav; but then they weren't meant to, at least not in a straight up-and-down fight. In a 1-on-1 battle, Bedouins should only go up against missiles, light infantry, and other light cav. If you're going to engage heavy cavalry such as katanks or Catholic knights, then you should be using 1 unit to engage them, and 1 or 2 units to hit their sides and rear. And as you pointed out, they're at their best when they stay in the desert (and arid areas). I don't recommend having a lot of camels in your armies if you're going to be attacking north of of the Mediterranean and Black Seas.

[antisocialmunky]

You could use them out of the desert as a cheap charge based mass router unit or rout catcher.

[Roark]

I love the Bedouins, and I use them for horse repellent as far as Iberia and Khazar.

They're my favourite Early Turkish unit for scrapping with Katanks (Obviously, in greater numbers...).

I find that I often get some awesome random generals with the Bedouins. 5 or 6 stars sometimes.

[Martok]

I find that I often get some awesome random generals with the Bedouins. 5 or 6 stars sometimes.

So do I, although I have to wonder how "random" they are. I have a feeling that a lot of those uber-generals were actual historical figures, but that they only appear within a certain timeframe, just like William Wallace and Joan of Arc.

[Eternal Champion]

I use Beduin's most anywhere as anti-cav units, they work and they're cheap. The lush terrain negative is peanuts when compared to the bonuses.

Terrain

+1 atk for camels in sandy desert
-1 atk for camels in lush or temperate
-2 atk, -2 def for cavalry or camel in trees
Bonus to atk for being uphill (amount depends on height difference)
Penalty to atk for being downhill (amount depends on height difference)

Fear of camels

+4 def for camels against horses
+2 atk for camels against horses

Morale is king of the battlefield no matter what unit your talking about. A combination of archery, and flank or rear charges can pile enough negative penalties to break almost any unit, even high valor royals. The problem is then economy of force, being able to apply maximum pressure where needed on the battlefield.

If it takes one unit of archers, one unit of infantry, and one unit of cav to supply enough force to counter one unit of camels, then I'd have to say that cheap unit of camels was well worth bringing to the battle.

[antisocialmunky]

So do I, although I have to wonder how "random" they are. I have a feeling that a lot of those uber-generals were actual historical figures, but that they only appear within a certain timeframe, just like William Wallace and Joan of Arc.

Same goes for Hobs, oyu get alot of historical figures with them that are 4* plus. Heck, I had a 6 star Hob leading an invasion of Mongol Russia in High along side RKs and Chivalric Knights.

[dgfred]

Actually, Camels share the same march speed (9) as Kataphraktoi and Gothics. These three also share the same charge speed (16). As a matter of fact, Camels run faster (14) than either Kats or Gothics (12).

Still, your point that Camels are slow is correct.

Camels are a great desert unit and very effective against cavalry, especially once they get to V4 (or morale of 8).

I've always found that their real problem isn't enemy infantry, but missile fire. The best way to kill Camels is with arrows. That's why Boyars should win head to head, shoot then fight.

ichi

Good point about the missiles ichi . In the historical battles the archers
seem to put a real hurting on the camels . Baiting them and then
shooting them down with archers worked very well for me.