Countdown to Open Beta - Iberia

[Sarcasm]

Well, you are describing a tipical lusitanian and celtiberian warrior, They doesnt armed only with falcata, they were fighted with celtic swords too, and daggers, of corse.

I don't know of any instance where Lusitanians are described as using Celtic Longswords or any arqueological finds of that type of weapon in Lusitanian territory.

Celtic Longsword (right)

Lusitanians and celtiberians wearing torcs, are you working in any unit with torcs?

I believe there are units that have torcs in Iberia, yes. Galaeci for sure, as will some Celtiberians, as for Lusitanians, I'm not sure. I'll have to check.

Lusitanians and celtiberians were armed whith montefortino´s helmet and "leather helmets". Are you working in any unit with montefortino`s helmet and celtic sword?

Lusitanians will probably not have montefortinos as far as I know, they will however use other types of helmets, including leather I presume. Celtiberians might have all types of helmets as well as the aformentioned swords.

Sorry, I was mistaken.
This warrior is from Oporto, in the border north of Lusitania with Gallaecia, he was armed with montefortino`s helmet:

Sorry for me english
thanks Sarcasm ;)

Those are thought to be a southern Gallaeci custom, though some examples have been found south of the river Douro.

No Problem. BTW, are you from Galicia (Artabrii... )?

[Artabrii]

Hello Sarcasm:

I don't know of any instance where Lusitanians are described as using Celtic Longswords or any arqueological finds of that type of weapon in Lusitanian territory.

Celtic Longsword (right)

when i say "celtic sword" i want to say Antennae-hilted sword, and this type of weapon (with celtic influences) it was in Lusitanian (and celtici) territory:


(from Alcacer do Sal)
Are you working in any unit with Antennae-hilted ?

I believe there are units that have torcs in Iberia, yes. Galaeci for sure, as will some Celtiberians, as for Lusitanians, I'm not sure. I'll have to check.

(from Vila Boas, Vila Flor, Portugal )

Lusitanians will probably not have montefortinos as far as I know, they will however use other types of helmets, including leather I presume. Celtiberians might have all types of helmets as well as the aformentioned swords.

I dont found any lusitanii montefortino`s helmet, but its probably that the lusitanians were armed with this weapon because they were influenced by celtiberians, and in the border of Lusitania have been from statues of Gallaecian warriors armed with montefortinos.
You are right
Are you working in any unit celtiberian with montefortino`s helmet?

Those are thought to be a southern Gallaeci custom, though some examples have been found south of the river Douro.

No Problem. BTW, are you from Galicia (Artabrii... )?

In eb map i would be from Bastetania

It is a pleasure to speak with you, Sarcasm

[Sarcasm]

Hello Sarcasm:


when i say "celtic sword" i want to say Antennae-hilted sword, and this type of weapon (with celtic influences) it was in Lusitanian (and celtici) territory:


(from Alcacer do Sal)
Are you working in any unit with Antennae-hilted ?

The sword which you speak of, was essentially a peninsular weapon. The prototype of the weapon probably arrived some 400 years earlier as some kind of Celtic shortsword. And it is true that it was mostly associated with Celtiberians, but really found all over the peninsula, including in Lusitania. The genuine Celtic swords used were those typical of the La Tene I and II style, though those have been rarely found, I believe in Galicia and Celtiberia.

(from Vila Boas, Vila Flor, Portugal )


I dont found any lusitanii montefortino`s helmet, but its probably that the lusitanians were armed with this weapon because they were influenced by celtiberians, and in the border of Lusitania have been from statues of Gallaecian warriors armed with montefortinos.
You are right
Are you working in any unit celtiberian with montefortino`s helmet?


In eb map i would be from Bastetania

It is a pleasure to speak with you, Sarcasm

It's probable yes, as are other types of helmets which are more typical of the peninsula. Other representations of helmets are more common, especially those of the bascinet type, though we can only guess of what material were they made.

Alicante, Cartagena?

Pleasure to speak with you too. Be my guest and post more pics on this subject, I love them.

[Artabrii]

Hi Sarcasm:

It's probable yes, as are other types of helmets which are more typical of the peninsula. Other representations of helmets are more common, especially those of the bascinet type, though we can only guess of what material were they made.

Alicante, Cartagena?

Pleasure to speak with you too. Be my guest and post more pics on this subject, I love them.

Yes, you are right, but for iberian faction a lusitanian unit of elite with montefortino`s helmet will be very good...

Im from Alicante You know spanish cities very good

I have other question for you :
have "Iberian" faction this type of unit?:

(left)

And...Are you working in any unit with sagum in iberian faction?

Thanks Sarcasm

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Well, sorry for intruding in the conversation, Artabrii. But I'm the one doing all the Iberian units. Like Sarcasm, I'm Portuguese and there are 2 more Spanish and 2 more Portuguese on the EB team. So, this part of the mod is and will continue to be thourougly researched.

Regarding you questions, yes there will be Celtiberians with longswords and the sword you mentioned before (the antenae hilted one) that was known by the Romans as gladius hispanniensis (spanish short sword) and as for the look of the units you'll just have to wait a bit more...

[Sarcasm]

Well, sorry for intruding in the conversation, Artabrii. But I'm the one doing all the Iberian units.

When he said you, it meant EB to me.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

When he said you, it meant EB to me.

Ok. So I understood it poorly...

[Artabrii]

Well, sorry for intruding in the conversation, Artabrii

Hi Ayma! and no problem
Skins of iberian faction are very good , i only asked Sarcasm (and EB team) for other types of unit (whit celtic weapons) in this faction and I argued this...

I'm Portuguese and there are 2 more Spanish and 2 more Portuguese on the EB team.

Dux, Sarcasm, Aymar and Angadil?

Regarding you questions, yes there will be Celtiberians with longswords and the sword you mentioned before (the antenae hilted one) that was known by the Romans as gladius hispanniensis (spanish short sword) and as for the look of the units you'll just have to wait a bit more...

I like this answer
Really antenae swords weren`t very diferent than celtic longsword (single the size)

Are you working in any unit with sagum in iberian faction?

Can`t you answer my question? ok, I understand to you (EB team), no problem.

Thanks and sorry for my english

[Sarcasm]

How about some photos of Iberian artifacts Artabrii? Would apreciate them.

[Artabrii]

Torcs? ? swords?drawings of iberian warriors? I have a lot...

[GoreBag]

I have other question for you :
have "Iberian" faction this type of unit?:

A guy in a tunic who throws fireballs?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Dux, Sarcasm, Aymar and Angadil?

Well, Angadil is Spanish yes, but his area of expertise it's the steppe nations.

Angadil, Dux Corvanus = Spanish
Aymar de Bois Mauri, Sarcasm, Dictator Sulla, Deadrunner, [cF]Hannbal = Portuguese

Really antenae swords weren`t very diferent than celtic longsword (single the size)

Well, sorry to disagree but the antenae swords you shown were used in a very different way. The style of fighting with these swords consisted mainly in stabbing movements (it's the sword that the romans later adopted and mass produced for their legions). The celtic swords were used nearly exclusivelly (specially longswords) as slashing weapons in wide flowing movements, not short stabbing thrusts.

Can`t you answer my question? ok, I understand to you (EB team), no problem.

Thanks and sorry for my english

You wanted to know if any unit typical of the city of Saguntum will feature in the mod?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Torcs? ? swords?drawings of iberian warriors? I have a lot...

All...

[Big_John]

A guy in a tunic who throws fireballs?

lol! it does look like he's doing that.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

lol! it does look like he's doing that.

That is in fact a soliferum (all metal heavy javelin typical of Ancient Iberia) with a an incendiary ball of dry grass. There was a specialized lighter javelin (designed with a support for the incendiary ball) that was used specifically for the role of torching wooden fortifications and alike, the falarica.

[Big_John]

yes, i'm familiar with the soliferum. in the picture it does look like he's casting a fireball (the javelin blends into the background a bit). it's kind of funny if you don't see the javelin right away.

[Artabrii]

You wanted to know if any unit typical of the city of Saguntum will feature in the mod?

Saguntum isnt inclosed in iberian faction hehe, I want to say cloak.

All...

A: northern warrior (astur?)
B: Gallaecian warrior



Warriors from Edetania


and...

[Artabrii]

and...

This is a vetton warrior with his typical clothing and weapons, (you can see he is wearing the sagum).


This image show us an astur warrior.


His weapons was discovered in Langreo (Oviedo, Spain). An this image is a picture of his shield.


Standard of Epona (from Numancia)



Signum equitum or bronze "sceptre-terminal" depicting a rider seated between two back-to-back horses. Note the human heads under the animals' front hooves and beneath their bodie

[Dux Corvanus]

I find that Astur warrior interesting. All looks rather plausible for me, except perhaps, those deer horns and the like attached to the helmet. They probably attached hair crests or something like that instead.

A rich guy. Shields like that were not available to everyone, and iron helmets were scarce. A mercenary, no doubt.

[Ergion]

The shield of my Clan (Devoti Custodes) is based in that standard.

[Artabrii]

It´s true, this warrior has equipment no very available to rest of astur warriors.
In my opinion the best representation of a astur warrior would be this one:


I think that "horned" warrior could no be necessary a mercenary. In my opinion could be a veteran warrior or one who has become "rich" through plunder.
The helm of the image is based in the "diadema of Mones", where we can see represented some:

"horned" warriors, although is only a interpretation and is doubtful. It´s possible that
could be a hair style and no a true "horned helm".

[Viriathus]

I have read the faction description, and my judgment is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CONGRATULATIONS!!

It's been a long time in gaming history since hostoric based strategy games have neglected the portuguese history, which really has an important place in european history, specificaly in the Discoveries period. Thanks to you, with the adition of the Lusitanian tribes to the Iberian faction, this brings a feeling of justice, in a way. Being the 1st faction of the period to force peace terms on the gigantic roman empire, the neglection of the Iberian tribes (amongst which are the Lusitanos), or (even worst) combining them into the spanish faction of RTW, was a major fault in RTW. The Lusitanos are known as the founding fathers of Portugal, as a political and cultural nation.
You even managed to surprise me with a few historic details unknown to me and, i'm sure, to most portuguese. That reflects the accuracy of your investigation.

I can hardly wait for the mod to come out, and meanwhile, as a portuguese living in Lisbon, if i can provide with whatever support you need (i might have easier access to specific documentation on the subject), don't hesitate to let me know. Although im not an historian, maybe i can be usefull to your research.

[Ergion]

The father founders of Spain and Portugal is the Roman Empire more than lusitanians, iberians or celtiberians, mate.
Our laws, our languages are from roman empire, and also our culture are overall from romans (although this one is a great mix).

The romanization process did a good work.

[Dux Corvanus]

Ergion, ¿tú también en Cai, pisha?

[Ergion]

En La Isla concretamente

[Dux Corvanus]

Entonces, deberías cambiar ese 'Location: Gadir' por 'Eriteia'.

[Ergion]

Cierto, pero como Kotinoussa está al lado, he nacido en ella y a La Isla fuera de España no la conoce ni Dios...