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Ludens 12:15 08-02-2005

Beautiful, Aymar. You are making it very hard for us to be patient while we wait for EB to arrive.

BTW, my compliments to those who made the signature banners for Iberia and the Swêbōz. The misty forest of the Swêbōz signature took me back to the time I lost in the German forrest. Very good work!

Danest 13:33 08-02-2005

Hmm, looking good. But... have historians typically categorized Iberians as barbarians? I can't tell just from looking, so I'm unsure (not that the distinction is really all that important, I suppose).

Dux Corvanus 14:15 08-02-2005

Originally Posted by Danest:
Hmm, looking good. But... have historians typically categorized Iberians as barbarians? I can't tell just from looking, so I'm unsure (not that the distinction is really all that important, I suppose).

Barbarian is any foreign culture to Greek-Roman world, specially a non-Mediterranean culture. Not a specific form of culture. From that point of view, anyone not belonging to their culture was a barbarian in the eyes of the Greek and Roman.

I must insist: 'barbarian' does not mean 'uncivilized', but 'strange to our uses and laws'.

If you refer to some kind of uncivilized and/or non-Mediterranean culture, then I must remind you that there were many different cultures in the Iberian Peninsula. From that point of view, the southeast Iberians -the ones mainly represented in this preview- were anything but 'barbarian'. They belonged to an ancient civilization with its own identity, but heavily influenced by centuries of constant interaction with the main Mediterranean civilizations of Ancient World. A Greek or Carthaginian should feel really comfortable among them.

The Iberians from the west, inner and north lands were another matter... you'll see...

Aymar de Bois Mauri 17:37 08-02-2005

Originally Posted by Mr Jones:
hhmmmmm i like the models but the textures are just a bit.... bland? i dunno there is just sumthing not quite right about them. they are a VAST improvement on the vanilla faction (as are all the EB factions) but i was far more impressed by the other previews. i was hoping for the iberians to get perhaps the biggest upgrade in EB, but then again, this is just a beta preview, so hopefully things will improve. still, it is nice work, and you should be congratulated. i really like the iberians in prometheus' RES GESTAE mod and in iberia: total war. maybe you could take a look at them? otherwise, well done. cheers.

p.s sorry if i seem ungrateful

Well, your entitled to your opinion. I haven't checked Prom's work for those mods but these units are only the 6 lowest units for the southern Iberians. The others are still a wip. And as far as bland is concerned, the higher end units did use a lot more rich patterns and clothing, so, stay tunned.

Aymar de Bois Mauri 17:44 08-02-2005

Originally Posted by Ludens:
Beautiful, Aymar. You are making it very hard for us to be patient while we wait for EB to arrive.

Hello, Ludens! Long time no see...

Thanks for the apreciation. Nice surprise to see you this interested. Keep on alert for more...

Originally Posted by Ludens:
BTW, my compliments to those who made the signature banners for Iberia and the Swêbōz. The misty forest of the Swêbōz signature took me back to the time I lost in the German forrest. Very good work!

It was Teleklos Archelaou.

Chester 05:06 08-03-2005

EB is getting to be a pain in the ass. I just know I'm going to stare at the faction selection screen, for about an hour, trying to figure out which faction to start as!

So far it's an even toss up with every single faction presented.

Iberia EB is the best Iberia I've seen. They don't look like Cathagian Clones!!!

Aymar de Bois Mauri 05:22 08-03-2005

Originally Posted by Chester:
EB is getting to be a pain in the ass. I just know I'm going to stare at the faction selection screen, for about an hour, trying to figure out which faction to start as!

Worry not. Pick one at random. They'll all be good and with very different challenges.

Originally Posted by Chester:
So far it's an even toss up with every single faction presented.

Good to know our work keeps you thinking...

Originally Posted by Chester:
Iberia EB is the best Iberia I've seen. They don't look like Cathagian Clones!!!

Thank you very much.

Mr Jones 08:06 08-04-2005

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri:
Well, your entitled to your opinion. I haven't checked Prom's work for those mods but these units are only the 6 lowest units for the southern Iberians. The others are still a wip. And as far as bland is concerned, the higher end units did use a lot more rich patterns and clothing, so, stay tunned.

that is good news. i was hoping that perhaps these units were the less interesting ones. besides, they are far better than any in vanilla rtw and a swag of other mods too. i think now i will probly start as the iberians. i love the idea of buckler and falcata combat. if i were a soldier back then, i would most definitley fight that way. looking forward to the beta release. cheers.

p.s chester nice sig. i love jack handy

Chester 14:38 08-05-2005

I love the spear heads! Just noticed them. What are those white droopy hats the lower ranked Levy's wear?
---------------------
Jack Handy was one of my favorite SNL skits. That tall lanky guy use to to the narrative for it, I can't recall his name, he played Franz in HANS AND FRANZ along side Dana Carvey.

jerby 15:08 08-05-2005

Originally Posted by Chester:
I love the spear heads! Just noticed them. What are those white droopy hats the lower ranked Levy's wear?

i dont see em, srry. i only see bronze-helmets, or do you mean another previeuw? link perhaps?

Btw aymar, what's wrong with their hands? the right hand looks like a left hand, or somehtign like that.

Salazar 15:55 08-05-2005

https://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?...milites5db.jpg

He means these i think.
And if i'm not wrong it's sinew.

Dux Corvanus 16:09 08-05-2005

It's a sinew helmet, with a red crest. The flexible long back part protected neck and shoulders from both slash cuts and sun. It has been found several times in Iberian art, specially this famous work: the Osuna warrior:

Colovion 20:22 08-05-2005

Awesome. The Iberians look incredible. I am in awe of the detail on those units.

/yay

Chester 01:37 08-06-2005

The Milties, the first picture, the one salazaar posted.

Here is a good site with pics of Iberian Soldiers.

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/iberian-falcata.htm

EB's pics are practially the same. Very close!

Aymar de Bois Mauri 02:15 08-06-2005

Originally Posted by Chester:
The Milties, the first picture, the one salazaar posted.

Here is a good site with pics of Iberian Soldiers.

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/iberian-falcata.htm

EB's pics are practially the same. Very close!

Good pictures but some incorrections in the text. The falcata was not the predecessor to the roman gladius. The spanish straight sword was. The falcata is a heavy tipped sword, much like a saber. The early gladius was exactly the copy of the spanish straight sword (called by the romans gladius hisppaniensis).

Chester 18:34 08-06-2005

I'm not sure if this is facist or not, but perhaps having Historians Police the internet for faulty information on popular sites would help combat ahistorical mumbo jumbo.

But even then I'm sure High ranking historians disagree about a lot too.

Zero1 19:26 08-06-2005

Amazing, simply breathtaking skins I can't wait to play as Iberia

Dux Corvanus 21:06 08-06-2005

Originally Posted by Chester:
...having Historians Police the internet for faulty information on popular sites would help combat ahistorical mumbo jumbo.

To have a History Police there should be a History Dogma. There isn't, fortunately.

jerby 23:17 08-06-2005

unfortunate? nah,i think it's good not to have dogma's. to allow people to think outside teh lines. wrong-dogma's ere even worse than no dogma's.
and setting the right dogma's is impossible today, thanks to our good 'ol freinds:hollywood

jerby 22:09 08-07-2005

oh, before the next one get's here. where are the devotio-warriors? I'd really liek to see how they really looked (and if RTR nailed it)

Moros 22:30 08-07-2005

Originally Posted by jerby:
oh, before the next one get's here. where are the devotio-warriors? I'd really liek to see how they really looked (and if RTR nailed it)

ofcourse all RTR's units are all 100% correct

note: the

!
but hey, I couldn't make it more historical than them, they just don't have the historians. Tough they use to have a great one!

RTR isn't a bad mod, tough they could have changed more things like the ships, all those ZOR units in Custom (and MP?) and ofcourse the lack of attention to the barbarians. I'll be playing it till EB or BL comes out. And if it depens to EB I might play it for ages

no go back to work you modders

jerby 22:39 08-07-2005

well. despite my sarcasm, and criticism, i quite like it. I ahvent played rtw for 3 months, so it's quite the step up.
but, in this case, i wasnt bashing rtr. i was merely curious about it's accuracy, wich isn't RTR's goal; wich is playabillity (my guess)

Dux Corvanus 23:22 08-07-2005

I hate to tell it, but there was no such thing as devotio warrior dedicated units. Devotio Iberica was not a special kind of soldier, but simply a religious formula, this is, a loyalty oath, that some warriors made, swearing to fight until death before allowing their leader be killed or captured. So they put their lives at risk in order to keeping safe the object ot their oaths.

But... they had no special equipment, nor formed special bodyguard units, nor anything. Simply some warriors of some diverse units decided to do so, without being gathered for any special task.

It is known that Sertorius was so admired among natives that many did these oaths about him, and that he was saved several times by the spontaneous reaction of many men among the Iberian ranks that left what they were doing to take him to safety.

But there will be no devotio warriors in EB: that unit is a wargame invention based on a misconception. Having them as a kind of elite unit, with unique equipment, is as silly as those bull-warriors, or the head-hurlers.

So how they looked like? Well, they looked like any other warrior... like the guys they had on their side: some had made a special religious vote, and some not.

It could be a nice trait, tho.

jerby 23:29 08-07-2005

ahh, thnx dux!
but then. wich unit is the one in the Pictures (no source, i'm looking) with the fish-scale-helmet+armor?

Dux Corvanus 00:02 08-08-2005

Scale-armor warriors are based in those depicted in S. Miguel de Liria vases. We're not sure about that being scale-armor (lorica hamata), and experts are divided. But it's what it looks -and I'm rather sure about it:

Artabrii 18:46 10-11-2005

HI EB membres, good job!

I have a question for you: has this faction any " more celtic" unit? I think that this faction should have them. Celtiberians was armed with celtic swords and helmets...
Skins are beatiful, congratulations

Sarcasm 18:56 10-11-2005

Don't expect Gallic warriors like those of Vanilla. The Celtic migration waves were composed of few people (compared to the Iberians already there) and were absorbed by the locals. Also, the Iberians are thought to have migrated into southern Gaul further separating them from the Gauls on the other side of the pyrenees.

Expect Iberian warriors equipped with celtic influenced equipment, like montefortino's helmets (which have been found in northern Iberia), some mail and longswords (the scutum had already been introduced to other peoples in the peninsula).

Artabrii 20:10 10-11-2005

Originally Posted by :
Don't expect Gallic warriors like those of Vanilla. The Celtic migration waves were composed of few people (compared to the Iberians already there) and were absorbed by the locals. Also, the Iberians are thought to have migrated into southern Gaul further separating them from the Gauls on the other side of the pyrenees

I know this, but celtiberians and lusitani was armed whit celtic weapons too. They dont only armed with falcata, this is a "topic".

Originally Posted by :
Expect Iberian warriors equipped with celtic influenced equipment, like montefortino's helmets (which have been found in northern Iberia), some mail and longswords (the scutum had already been introduced to other peoples in the peninsula).

Montefortino´s helmets dont have been only found in northern Iberia, for example, in Gallaecia only have been found 4 montefortinos´s, but in Celtiberia and Lusitania are a lot of helmets...

Sarcasm 23:20 10-11-2005

Originally Posted by Artabrii:
I know this, but celtiberians and lusitani was armed whit celtic weapons too. They dont only armed with falcata, this is a "topic".

The Lusitani were most often armed with falcatas and daggers (designated triangulars), spears and javelins. They also used Caetrati and a bigger round shield similar to those used by the vikings centuries later. Most did not use any sort of armour.

Celtiberians were armed with a bit of everything really- Falcatas, Longswords, Hispanic Straightswords, Spears (of various sizes), Solifferrums and regular javelins were also used.

As for shields we know they used both caetratis and scutums. We haven't found any examples of chainmail of the period, but we believe that their skill (not to mention Celtic influence) was more than enough to produce it. We do know for sure, however, that they used bronze disc armour and leather corselets.

Originally Posted by :
Montefortino´s helmets dont have been only found in northern Iberia, for example, in Gallaecia only have been found 4 montefortinos´s, but in Celtiberia and Lusitania are a lot of helmets...

I didn't say they were only found in northern Iberia. I said some were found there. Though I don't know of any examples found in Lusitania.

Artabrii 02:24 10-12-2005

Originally Posted by :
The Lusitani were most often armed with falcatas and daggers (designated triangulars), spears and javelins. They also used Caetrati and a bigger round shield similar to those used by the vikings centuries later. Most did not use any sort of armour.

Celtiberians were armed with a bit of everything really- Falcatas, Longswords, Hispanic Straightswords, Spears (of various sizes), Solifferrums and regular javelins were also used.

As for shields we know they used both caetratis and scutums. We haven't found any examples of chainmail of the period, but we believe that their skill (not to mention Celtic influence) was more than enough to produce it. We do know for sure, however, that they used bronze disc armour and leather corselets.

Well, you are describing a tipical lusitanian and celtiberian warrior, They doesnt armed only with falcata, they were fighted with celtic swords too, and daggers, of corse.
Lusitanians and celtiberians wearing torcs, are you working in any unit with torcs?

Lusitanians and celtiberians were armed whith montefortino´s helmet and "leather helmets". Are you working in any unit with montefortino`s helmet and celtic sword?

Originally Posted by :
I didn't say they were only found in northern Iberia. I said some were found there. Though I don't know of any examples found in Lusitania.

Sorry, I was mistaken.

This warrior is from Oporto, in the border north of Lusitania with Gallaecia, he was armed with montefortino`s helmet:

Sorry for me english

thanks Sarcasm ;)

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