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Thread: The Muslim mind is on fire

  1. #1
    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default The Muslim mind is on fire

    by Youssef M. Ibrahim


    "The world of Islam is on fire. Indeed, the Muslim mind is on fire. Above all, the West is now ready to take both of them on.

    The latest reliable report confirms that on average 33 Iraqis die every day, executed by Iraqis and foreign jihadis and suicide bombers, not by US or British soldiers. In fact, fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago. Instead, we now watch on television hundreds of innocent Iraqis lying without limbs, bleeding in the streets dead or wounded for life. If this is jihad someone got his religious education completely upside down.

    Palestine is on fire, too, with Palestinian armed groups fighting one another - Hamas against Fatah and all against the Palestinian Authority. All have rendered Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas impotent and have diminished the world's respect and sympathy for Palestinian sufferings.

    A couple of weeks ago London was on fire as Pakistani and other Muslims with British citizenship blew up tube stations in the name of Islam. Al Qaeda in Europe or one of its franchises proclaimed proudly the killing of 54 and wounding 700 innocent citizens was done to "avenge Islam" and Muslims.

    Madrid was on fire, too, last year, when Muslim jihadis blew up train stations killing 160 people and wounding a few thousands.

    The excuse in all the above cases was the war in Iraq, but let us not forget that in September 2001, long before Iraq, Osama Bin Laden proudly announced that he ordered the killing of some 3,000 in the United States, in the name of avenging Islam. Let us not forget that the killing began a long time before the invasion of Iraq.

    Indeed, jihadis have been killing for a decade in the name of Islam. They killed innocent tourists and natives in Morocco and Egypt, in Africa, in Indonesia and in Yemen, all done in the name of Islam by Muslims who say that they are better than all other Muslims. They killed in India, in Thailand and are now talking of killing in Germany and Denmark and so on. There were attacks with bombs that killed scores inside Shia and Sunni mosques, inside churches and inside synagogues in Turkey and Tunisia, with Muslim preachers saying that it is okay to kill Jews and Christians - the so called infidels.

    Above all, it is the Muslim mind that is on fire.

    The Muslim fundamentalist who attacked the Dutch film director Theo Van Gogh in the Netherlands, stabbed him more than 23 times then cut his throat. He recently proudly proclaimed at his trial: "I did it because my religion - Islam - dictated it and I would do it again if were free." Which preacher told this guy this is Islam? That preacher should be in jail with him.

    Do the cowardly jihadis who recruit suicide bombers really think that they will force the US Army and British troops out of Iraq by killing hundreds of innocent Iraqis? US troops now have bases and operate in Iraq but also from Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Oman.

    The only accomplishment of jihadis is that now they have aroused the great "Western Tiger". There was a time when the United States and Europe welcomed Arab and Muslim immigrants, visitors and students, with open arms. London even allowed all dissidents escaping their countries to preach against those countries under the guise of political refugees.

    Well, that is all over now. Time has become for the big Western vengeance.

    Visas for Arab and Muslim young men will be impossible to get for the United States and Western Europe. Those working there will be expelled if they are illegal, and harassed even if their papers are in order.

    Airlines will have to right to refuse boarding to passengers if their names even resemble names on a prohibited list on all flights heading to Europe and the United States.

    What is more important to remember is this: When the West did unite after World War II to beat communism, the long Cold War began without pity. They took no prisoners. They all stood together, from the United States to Norway, from Britain to Spain, from Belgium to Switzerland. And they did bring down the biggest empire. Communism collapsed.

    I fear those na´ve Muslims who think that they are beating the West have now achieved their worst crime of all. The West is now going to war against not only Muslims, but also, sadly, Islam as a religion.

    In this new cold and hot war, car bombs and suicide bombers here and there will be no match for the arsenal that those Westerners are putting together - an arsenal of laws, intelligence pooling, surveillance by satellites, armies of special forces and indeed, allies inside the Arab world who are tired of having their lives disrupted by demented so-called jihadis or those bearded preachers who, under the guise of preaching, do little to teach and much to ignite the fire, those who know little about Islam and nothing about humanity."

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

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    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    In fact, fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago.
    Looks like someone needs to do a fact check. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this is just an error, rather than an intentional lie.
    Last edited by Hurin_Rules; 08-01-2005 at 23:09.
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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    It is good to hear a words of reason from the muslim community.Im only afraid that West is not yet that united and determined as he describes.But we should be.Make no mistake.This is war,and we should aknowledge this.Jihadist and extremist cant be bought of or reasoned.They have declared war on the culture that we all present.This reminds me of 30┤s when people in germany,Italy,Japan and Soviet Union preached hate and we just stood by and did nothing.This time our enemies are more vague then back then.But they are not invicible or invincible.We should use every trick in the book together to rout out these maniacs before they win the civil war in muslim community all ower the world.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

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    Member Member Azi Tohak's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    Looks like someone needs to do a fact check. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this is just an error, rather than an intentional lie.
    Since someone was going to start debating, how about this:

    (from: http://icasualties.org/oif/)





    And I will admit, Hurin, I did start this to try to prove you wrong. I guess I did not realize how low it had been for so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by kagemusha
    It is good to hear a words of reason from the muslim community.Im only afraid that West is not yet that united and determined as he describes.But we should be.Make no mistake.This is war,and we should aknowledge this.Jihadist and extremist cant be bought of or reasoned.They have declared war on the culture that we all present.This reminds me of 30┤s when people in germany,Italy,Japan and Soviet Union preached hate and we just stood by and did nothing.This time our enemies are more vague then back then.But they are not invicible or invincible.We should use every trick in the book together to rout out these maniacs before they win the civil war in muslim community all ower the world.
    Here here!

    So...do we start? With what Mr. Youssef M. Ibrahim said? I'm up for it. But what he proposes probably can't pass any Western nations government system. Now...if we were a dictatorship (ahem...insert Middle-East country here), we could, no problem. And dissenters would be killed.

    Azi
    Last edited by Azi Tohak; 08-02-2005 at 00:00.
    "If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse."
    Mark Twain 1881

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    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Azi Tohak
    And I will admit, Hurin, I did start this to try to prove you wrong. I guess I did not realize how low it had been for so long.
    Fair enough. At least some good has come out of the article then: you now know there's no real basis for his claim that fewer troops are dying.
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    Looks like someone needs to do a fact check. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this is just an error, rather than an intentional lie.
    He means that fewer British and U.S. are dying then Iraqis.

    In fact, fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago. Instead, we now watch on television hundreds of innocent Iraqis lying without limbs, bleeding in the streets dead or wounded for life.
    You took it out of context and misunderstood the mesage.

    More Iraqis are dying than coalition forces because of insurgent attacks. It was the other way around not long ago.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    *scratches her head*

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    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Ummm... let me get this straight.

    He's saying that one sign of progress is that the same number of American and coalition soldiers are dying, but now there are a lot more Iraqi dead on top of that?

    I really fail to follow that reasoning.
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Well, we can now see the first results from the western hostility towards Islamic nations. Indonesia has signed several bilateral agreements with China, including arms and military equipment. A country like Indonesia needs support, not hostility.....

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Well, we can now see the first results from the western hostility towards Islamic nations.


    You mean like all that money we gave you after the Tsunami?

    What have western nations done to indonesia to cause this perverbial knife in the back?


    Im about tired of muslims tell the rest of the world what they need. We need you to reign in your terrorists.. hows that working out?

  11. #11
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager


    You mean like all that money we gave you after the Tsunami?

    What have western nations done to indonesia to cause this perverbial knife in the back?


    Im about tired of muslims tell the rest of the world what they need. We need you to reign in your terrorists.. hows that working out?
    US still have a arms embargo on Indonesia. I can't understand why US continue to have that. It has forced Indonesia to get arms out of China.
    Furthermore, Indonesia did follow IMF advice, and as a thanks the country risk is set to 6% by the west, meaning that more or less every infrastructure investment goes to China.
    It has nothing to do with tsunami. Neither does it have anything to do with that muslims needs. It has to do with keeping the communists from buying up the reformistic islamic nations, just because some old politicians with stereotype opinions on muslims.......

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    Ummm... let me get this straight.

    He's saying that one sign of progress is that the same number of American and coalition soldiers are dying, but now there are a lot more Iraqi dead on top of that?

    I really fail to follow that reasoning.
    Holy jump-to-conclusions Batman!

    He is saying that the nature of the warfare in Iraq has changed and that the insurgents are targeting their own people instead.

    Look, I am really tempted to be negative about your attitude and resort to lefty bashing, but I won't.

    It seems that you are processing the information according to your pre-concieved notion of what is going on over there. From your postings, you are twisting what has been written to fit your own twisted view of reality. I urge you to approach the matter open-mindedly and absorb facts first.

    Please quote the spot in the article where he tries to explain that this is progress.

    He wrote:

    The latest reliable report confirms that on average 33 Iraqis die every day, executed by Iraqis and foreign jihadis and suicide bombers, not by US or British soldiers. In fact, fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago. Instead, we now watch on television hundreds of innocent Iraqis lying without limbs, bleeding in the streets dead or wounded for life. If this is jihad someone got his religious education completely upside down.
    If anything, he is saying that the Jihadists are evil for targeting their own muslim community.


    This is a perfect example of why so many on the right are just fed up with the left. You engage in circular reasoning to justify your positions. Here is an example to illustrate circular reasoning:

    Lefty: "The war on terrorism is going badly".
    Righty: "Why is the war on terrorism going badly"?
    L: "Because Bush has veered off course and taken us into a war we cannot win based on lies".
    R: "What more could Bush be doing in the war on terrorism?"
    L: "While we are tied up in the Iraq quagmire, Iran and North Korea are developing nuclear weapons!"
    R: "So should we invade them instead?"
    L: "See Neo-con, you think we should invade other countries! You are an imperialist!"
    R: "What? We are trying to use diplomacy with them!"
    L: "The talks are failing. The war on terrorism is going badly".

    I noticed that many Christians engage in circular reasoning as well:

    Christian "You must be a christian or you will go to hell".
    Heathen: "Why?"
    C: "Because the bible say so!"
    H: "But what if the bible is wrong?"
    C: "The bible isn't wrong. It says so in the bible."

    You cannot use reason and logic with these people becasue they can always point to something that justifys them no matter how little sense it makes.

    (BTW, no offense to anyone here. I am not so arrogant as to think that I actually know what religion is "correct". I could be wrong, Christians could be wrong, Hindus could be right, Muslims could be right. Who the hell am I to say what the correct way to view god is? I am just pointing out circular reasoning.)
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The Backroom is the Crackroom.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    I love this article... aroused the great western tiger... feel the western vengeance...

    omg
    Common Unreflected Drinking Only Smartens

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    It seems that you are processing the information according to your pre-concieved notion of what is going on over there. ........
    I urge you to approach the matter open-mindedly and absorb facts first.
    Divinus you follow that with...
    He wrote: part of which is .....
    In fact, fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago.
    That is untrue , while last months figures are lower than the previous two months they are higher than the two before that . The casualties vary , last month was slightly below the median that is all , it is not "fewer than ever" , that would have been Feb'04 (even if you take the difference in days in the month)

    If anything, he is saying that the Jihadists are evil for targeting their own muslim community.
    I thought he was saying that the Jihadists are evil because they are evil , whether they be attacking Madrid , London , Baghdad ,Tunisia or anywhere else , and that their claiming to do it in the name of Islam means that Islam is going to get the fallout from it .

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    [B
    In fact, fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago. [/B]
    That is untrue , while last months figures are lower than the previous two months they are higher than the two before that . The casualties vary , last month was slightly below the median that is all , it is not "fewer than ever" , that would have been Feb'04 (even if you take the difference in days in the month)
    Once again, as I said before, he is not saying that less coalition forces are getting killed. He is saying less are getting killed than Iraqis. Which is different.
    Instead, we now watch on television hundreds of innocent Iraqis lying without limbs, bleeding in the streets dead or wounded for life
    If anything, he is saying that the Jihadists are evil for targeting their own muslim community.
    I thought he was saying that the Jihadists are evil because they are evil , whether they be attacking Madrid , London , Baghdad ,Tunisia or anywhere else , and that their claiming to do it in the name of Islam means that Islam is going to get the fallout from it .[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you on this. I think he is pointing out the absurdity of changing tactics from killing westerners to killing muslims.


    You know what? This article is poorly articulated and confusing to too many people. I am not going to waste another second defending such a poorly written article. He deserves all the crap you monkeys can throw since he writes like a grade school teacher's pet. Have at it, my circular reasoning friends!
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The Backroom is the Crackroom.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    By the way, the "poo-slinging monkey" comment was meant as a joke. I know you patrons are all fine upstanding human beings with hope, dreams, and ethics. You are not, repeat NOT: gorillas, orangutans, lemurs, chimpanzees, baboons, bonobos, or any other type of primate. And I know that you all dispose of your fecal matter appropriatley.

    Thank you. I love you all. World peace, love, charity, and integrity.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The Backroom is the Crackroom.

  17. #17
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    I will not respond to the ad hominem argument launched against me, but I will continue to point out one simple fact:

    The author's statement that 'fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago.' is clearly and simply false. You can try to say that the author actually meant to say something else--spin it any way you want--but what he actually said was false. Pure and simple.

    Does anyone still doubt that?
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    The author's statement that 'fewer than ever US or British soldiers are dying since the invasion more than two years ago.' is clearly and simply false.
    Not so fast my friend. He didnt say over the two year period. So if we want to indulge in the technicalities of the English lanquage he is correct. Fewer are dying now than were TWO years ago when we FIRST invaded . Its not as clear and simple as you make it our to be. Even if we give you the benifit of the doubt I also took it to mean that they have switched their main targets to Iraqis. If this is all you have to quible about its a sad thing.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    I fear those na´ve Muslims who think that they are beating the West have now achieved their worst crime of all. The West is now going to war against not only Muslims, but also, sadly, Islam as a religion.
    I think that what some are overlooking is that this is the most important statement the author made. Some might think it a good thing that the west is rousing its own terrible anger and aiming its resources at this "common enemy." But the problem is that that is exactly what the extremists want: an all out "infidel" vs. Islam struggle.

    We are playing right into their hands.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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  20. #20
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Muslim mind is on fire

    But the problem is that that is exactly what the extremists want: an all out "infidel" vs. Islam struggle.
    There are extremists on both sides who want this. It works both ways. The author is saying if push comes to shove Islam beware.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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