United Kingdom

[Strike For The South]

I've never been quite clear are this are England Wales Scotland No ireland like states/provinceses or different countries I've never been quite clear on this

[lars573]

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and northern Ireland is a complecated beast. It's unitary government not federal, meaning the central government in London only shares what responsibilites it sees fit with local assemblies. And they can be revoked at any time for any reason. But Blair's policy of devolution has been inching Scotland and Wales and NI to a more federal way of doing things, with varrying degrees of success. It was created in 1707 with the act of union between Scotland and England. This meant in essence that the Scotish parliment members were elected to and sat in the English parliment in London. Between 1603 and 1707 who ever sat on the English throne was effectively 3 kings in one. He was king of England (this includes Wales) king of Scotland, and king of Ireland (thanks to Henry VIII who changed it from the title given to Henry II, Lord of Ireland). This in operational terms meant 1 king had to deal with 3 parliments 3 sets of nobles and governing traditions spread all over. The UK was created IIRC to prevent more Jacobite uprisings. It didn't work their were 2 more major ones, but neither managed to take over Scotland permanantly as the governement wasn't their to take. The Irish parliment was dissolved and Ireland included in the UK in 1801 after an uprsing there that was (in theory) supposed to co-inside with French landing in Ireland. The way things are now was created in 1920 when the Irish free state was created and the 6 counties of Ulster voted to stay part of the UK, leading to no end of headaches. Part of the government of Ireland act stated that Ulster (easier to write than NI) would have a semiautonomous government.

I don't konw how much this can help, but it's a start.

[master of the puppets]

so your saying that at one time each area acted almost like a seperate country but answered to a single king ...hmm

also a bit of a ignorant question but i want to know, who was the last king of england and when, all i know is that now there are queens and princes and stuff but who was the last KING.
representative or otherwise.

[King Henry V]

George VI was the last King of England, but he was the last King full stop. The Act of Union did not really change anything for the monarchy, the Queen is still Queen of England and of Scotland, not the United Kingdom.

[lars573]

so your saying that at one time each area acted almost like a seperate country but answered to a single king ...hmm

also a bit of a ignorant question but i want to know, who was the last king of england and when, all i know is that now there are queens and princes and stuff but who was the last KING.
representative or otherwise.

Well you have to understand, in the 16th to 19th centuries a crowned head unions weren't that uncommon. And that sharing a king mean't effectively you had the same government as the other nation. Parliments in those days being consultative bodies made up of the nobility/money class. That and in a sense they were seperate countries.

[Flavius Clemens]

A few more points that might help, or just make it all the more confusing!

It's important to be aware that the history of the British Isles and how its various occupants have related to one another is long and complicated, and this post won't do justice to it.

As Lars 573 points out, the countries of Great Britain (in order of population, England, Scotland and Wales) shared exactly the same government and parliament for nearly 300 years. Wales and England were under the same authority for a lot longer than that, which means for instance they share basically the same legal and educational systems, whilst Scotland's are rather different.

The establishment of a Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly a few years ago means that they both have some level of political autonomy as nations, but not much (The Scottish Parliament has the right to vary the level of income tax charged in Scotland as compared to the rest of Briton, the Welsh Assembly doesn't.) I'm not an expert on the division of power in the US and Canadian systems, but I think it's right to say a US state would have control over more of its affairs than either Scotland or Wales has within the UK.

Both Scotland and Wales have political parties committed to independence from Briton (though the main British parties also play a full part in their politics).

Looking at the culture, English is the commonest language in Scotland and Wales, but Scots Gaelic is some people's first language in Scotland and Welsh is spoken by about 20% of the population of Wales (though most of those speak English too.) In some sports England, Wales and Scotland have their own international teams - for instance their is particularly strong rivarly between English and Scottish football (soccer) support - in others there is a Great Briton team. Off the top of my head I can't think of any sport where there's a UK team.

And it's too late at night for me to start talking about how Northern Ireland fits in to all this...

So to sum up, the UK has one overall parliament, one head of state (Queen Elizabeth II), one head of government (the Prime Minister - Tony Blair) one set of armed forces, one place on international bodies such as the European Union and the United Nations but varying levels of government beneath the parliament, four international football teams and people vary as to how they attach their national loyalty to the different levels of the UK. So if you're left confused as to whether we're one country or four don't worry - nowadays we are too

[King Henry V]

I think only in the Olympics is the United Kingdom represented as a whole.

[ShadesWolf]

Off the top of my head I can't think of any sport where there's a UK team.

Cricket - even though it is called England.

[Boohugh]

Off the top of my head I can't think of any sport where there's a UK team.

As King Henry V noted, the Olympics, and in fact all athletics events, are represented by the UK. As ShadesWolf said, cricket is. Tennis is represented by Great Britain. Really, it is only a few sports such as football and rubgy where we don't compete as the United Kingdom.

[Flavius Clemens]

Cricket - even though it is called England.

But nowadays Scotland does have a team in its own right, which has one day international status from next year.

The overall point I was trying to make is that national loyalties in the UK are a complicated thing.

[master of the puppets]

As King Henry V noted, the Olympics, and in fact all athletics events, are represented by the UK. As ShadesWolf said, cricket is. Tennis is represented by Great Britain. Really, it is only a few sports such as football and rubgy where we don't compete as the United Kingdom.

what about Quiddich? lolololololol

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Wales can get a team together too.
Still, good Welsh players have (and do, I think) play for the English cricket team, just like Scottish ones would if any were good enough.

[Orda Khan]

The UK is not represented in the Olympic games. That team is known as Great Britain

.........Orda

[lars573]

So nothern Ireland has no representation in the olympics? Shaftola says I.

[Papewaio]

The Commonwealth Nations share the same Queen as that of England.

So QEII is the Queen of Australia, the Queen of Canada and the Queen of New Zealand... yet we are all independent political systems (in ruling if not modeling).

[Strike For The South]

This has just made it more confusing All of you are England

[lars573]

You want complecated try understanding that Charles Prince of Wales is directly decended from Queen Victoris through his mother and father.

Also the complete list of nations that Lizzy 2.0 is Queen of (in alphebetical order) is, Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, the Solomon Islands, and Tuvalu.

[Tribesman]

This has just made it more confusing All of you are England
No England is England (plus the duchy of cornwall) then you have Great Britain , The United Kingdom , the British Isles , whats left of the British Empire , dependancies , dominions and possessions , and The British Commomwealth .
See its not at all confusing is it

[Duke of Gloucester]

Just to add to the confusion:

The Commonwealth Nations share the same Queen as that of England.

Not all members of the Commonwealth have the Queen as Head of State, for example, India.

So nothern Ireland has no representation in the olympics?

Northern Irish athletes, at least the ones I know of, compete in the Great Britain team, even though Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain. In suppose athletes who couldn't stomach being in a GB team could represent the Republic, but I can't name any who do.

[Duke Malcolm]

This has just made it more confusing All of you are England

I am not England. Hows about that whenever you have an urge to say England, just say Britain, or the UK, because Scotland certainly is not England...

[lars573]

And a sure fire recipe to make a Scotsman fightin mad is to say he comes from England.

[ShadesWolf]

But nowadays Scotland does have a team in its own right, which has one day international status from next year.

You are joking right ?

[Templar Knight]

I think it is true, the Scottish team played Australia as part of the lead up.

[Don Corleone]

Let's further confuse things... before we lost our minds and threw the Tea Party, how did the American colonies fit in? And why weren't any titles ever granted? Great Britain had fought at least 5 major wars between the founding of Jamestown the Declaration of Independence....it never had need of granting (oh, what's the word when you deed the land to an aristorcrat.....)?

Also, what exactly did the Treaty of Paris do, legally speaking? In every other instance, even Ireland & India, the UK kept some formal legal relationship with the aggrieved party. But I do not believe we did. And is whatever legal-mumbo-jumbo that was performed reversible? Let's just suppose W & Congress stated they had a desire to rejoin the UK, could they?

I'm sorry, I'm just playing an elaborate 'what if' scenario out...

[Flavius Clemens]

You are joking right ?

No, for real - the top five teams from the ICC Trophy get one day status from Jan 2006 to 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-day_international

[Tribesman]

ShadesYou are joking right ?
Followed by
ClemensNo, for real
How comes the Republic don't get included until 2006 ? Afer all they did put the W.Indies all out for less than 30 a while back , which is something that England has never achieved
Crickert eh ?.. It was a good excuse before they brought in all day opening on a Sunday over there

[Kraxis]

Don, that is a strange case indeed. Personally I have never thought of it, but that is perhaps because it has never had an impact on me, being a Dane.

Anyway I know a little about Jamaica, another colony. And there there were certainly Lords and so on, but if they had their fiefs in Jamaica itself is a bigger question, but I think some did.
So we have a case of the aristocracy getting landgrants and titles in Jamaica but not in the 13 mainland colonies. Well, perhaps we should concentrate on titles as I'm certain that land was granted to people, why shouldn't it?

In any case there was an aristocracy in the 13 colonies, the landed gentry, you know those guys with the big estates. It sort of carried on in the south with the plantations, but I'm getting into stuff I'm no expert of.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Rugby has a British Lions Team, cant beleive no-body mentioned that ;)

[Hôjô Ujimara]

the British Lions is the British and Irish Lions. And as for this..... I consider England, Sctoland, Wales, NI, Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man and all the other little places to be Seperate Countries under one "united banner". Of course, this is slightly biased as I am English, but I don't want to be classed under the same name as Scottish people in EVERYTHING now do I? (no Offense to any Scots people, it's just a rivalry issue.)

And even in these, there is still greta diversity. The North/South Divide, and the fact that even though us up here in the North East aren't really the typical Northerners, the "typical" ones they refer to from down south are lower Yorkshire i.e. Bolton, Leeds, Sheffield etc.

Sorry for any mistypes or spelling mistakes, I'm typing this really fast.

[King Henry V]

Let's further confuse things... before we lost our minds and threw the Tea Party, how did the American colonies fit in? And why weren't any titles ever granted? Great Britain had fought at least 5 major wars between the founding of Jamestown the Declaration of Independence....it never had need of granting (oh, what's the word when you deed the land to an aristorcrat.....)?

Also, what exactly did the Treaty of Paris do, legally speaking? In every other instance, even Ireland & India, the UK kept some formal legal relationship with the aggrieved party. But I do not believe we did. And is whatever legal-mumbo-jumbo that was performed reversible? Let's just suppose W & Congress stated they had a desire to rejoin the UK, could they?

I'm sorry, I'm just playing an elaborate 'what if' scenario out...

The colonies were simply part of the territories ruled by the sovereign, like today's Saint Helena, Ascension or the Channel Islands, which are not legally part of the United Kingdom. However, they are dominions ruled over by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
India was until after the Indian Mutiny governed by the Royal East India Company, which under the Royal Charter allowed to raise troops, levy taxes and build ships over the territories it ruled. However, the Indian Mutiny showed such a great country could not be ruled solely by a trading company, thus it was abolished and Queen Victoria was made by Act of Parliament Empress of India.
Ireland was until 1802 held by the King as Lord of Ireland. The Act of Union of 1802 incorporated Ireland into the United Kingdom, henceforth the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.