Are we really all that dumb

[Don Corleone]

I appreciate your honesty Louis. And I swear, I'm not being defensive or setting you up.... how much time have you spent over here? How exactly did you reach that conclusion?

By the way, there's a certain amount of provinicalism here in the United States that mimics this phenomenon. If you asked people from Massachussets about people from Alabama, you'd get similar results, even though the vast majority of people in Massachussets haven't met somebody from Alabama, let alone visited there (or perish the thought, spent enough time there to learn the culture first hand).

[Gawain of Orkeny]

By the way, there's a certain amount of provinicalism here in the United States that mimics this phenomenon. If you asked people from Massachussets about people from Alabama, you'd get similar results, even though the vast majority of people in Massachussets haven't met somebody from Alabama, let alone visited there (or perish the thought, spent enough time there to learn the culture first hand).

Yup and the term damn yankee is still popular in the south and many notherners still look upon the south as hicks. Californians think they are the most proggrsesive and us New Yorkers think we are the shite.

[Don Corleone]

Those on both sides who are over 50 can do all that higher education or not. I find you eurpoeans arrogance uterly amazing here. You claim to know more about the world but in reality all you know more about is europe. Yes you know about more countries because their in your backyard. You think you know about the US but in reality most of you are clueless on the matter.

Hey, hey, hey. No need to get defensive. Regardless of whether they're correct or not, there's a perception we're trying to deal with here, and getting sore over it isn't going to do anything to alleviate that. I don't think they're being snobs. I think they think they have a handle on truth. They may even be right. At the very least, they're being honest, and we're trying to encourage that.

For all I know the average unwashed mass in Germany might be more informed than the average unwashed mass in Oklahoma. Again, I do want to point out that my poll question was about total acquired knowledge, not knowledge of other cultures. The point is, either 1) Europeans really are more informed (on a variety of issues) than Americans or 2) they're ignorant themselves in terms of their relative level of information.

Again, my point with this thread & poll was to start a dialogue, and to highlight a few of the Us vs. Them undercurrents that go on around here. Until you can see them, it's very hard to understand them. I think Americans in the Backroom view the Europeans as smug (very broad brush here) and the Europeans tend to view the Americans as thin skinned and uninformed (on a variety of issues) (and again, painting with a very broad brush).

Getting sore and saying 'Aha! you're all a bunch of arrogant curs' isn't going to change anything.

[PanzerJaeger]

Some of the absolute stupidity some of my German friends hit me with about the US amazes me. 2 of them think Bush and Israel planned 9/11 to fulfill some sort of holy zionist crusade against arabs.. and these people got better grades than I did in school..


The way I see it, European media leads Europeans to feel they are the most informed people on the planet when in reality a lot of them are being taken for a ride.

The difference between America and Europe is that Cledus over here doesnt pretend to know anything about anything outside of lower alabama but Hans in europe is lead to believe he's informed about other parts of the world.


Most Americans dont know much about the rest of the world and most Europeans dont know much about places outside of Europe.

[Don Corleone]

By the way, I want to congratulate everyone, on all sides of this issue, especially Kaiser. I was really hesitant to light this powder keg off, but thus far, you've all been doing a fantastic job at having a frank discussion about a sensitive topic.

I think there is hope for the Backroom, and we can move beyond the Crypts & the Bloods attitude we've had in here lately, we just need to move out of our traditional topic base and find things to discuss that move us out of our pre-defined knowledge base of assumptions.

PJ, I think the term 'stupidity' is a bit harsh, especially since you're talking about a matter of faith, not knowledge, but the rest of your post actually put it into context.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Some people have a weird definition of uninformed.

"lack of knowledge of other countries"?

I don't need to know who the prime minister of canada is any more than I need to know the atomic weight of Einsteinium. Knowing what you need to know makes you informed.

Almost amusing

[discovery1]

I would say that Americans are more ignorant on many things, like other countries but to say we are dumb is probably wrong. Then again, I'm reminded of 'The Tonight Show's' Jay Walking segment. So stupid the people are.

[Don Corleone]

How many hundreds of answers does he have to receive in order to get the 10 that he puts on the screen though? The whole point of the skit is to make you laugh by finding the dumbest people out there. That's hardly fair to use it as representative of the intelligence or knowledge level of the population at large.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I would say that Americans are more ignorant on many things, like other countries but to say we are dumb is probably wrong.

Again as Europeans are unaware of what happens in our individual states. Europe thinks they are the world while we think we are. The difference is that we are far more humble individually. All you have to do is look at the poll to back this up. Most of us think were all the same.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think if someone actually did a study as to how many US Historians know about other countries, compared to how many European Historians know about other countries, you'd be surprised at the results...

Well just going by the monastary I see no evidence of europeans having any better knowledge of history than that displayed by american posters here.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

My beef with the american people is that they are ignorant to logic.

Well you proved that in the Bush bashing thread. Logic had no effect upon your position.

[Louis VI the Fat]

No need to get defensive. I'm talking about the unwashed masses. My point is after all that the educated part, by which I mean some 50% of the population, on either side of the Atlantic is no more ignorant than the other. There's no difference in ignorance between educated Americans and Europeans.
Of course there's no difference between what historians on either side know. They read the same books and articles.

The unwashed masses in America do seem to be more ignorant than their European counterpart in my perception. I have a feeling that the working class poor in Europe read more newspapers, more informative books and watch more news than in America. They seem less anti-intellectualistic overall, less superstitious, less averse to 'high culture'. But I'd be very interested in some links or figure's. Anyone found any yet?

Anyway, if I wanted to be snobbish, I would've talked about the educated half. But alas, the truth stands in the way and nobody can call educated Americans ignorant.

And one does not take intellectual delight of course in how many of one's uneducated half can spell, say, 'potato' correctly...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This puts me in mind of the Monty Python skit:

Host: And the first question is of Karl Marx. Coventry City last won the English football cup in what year? No, I'm not surprised you didn't get that. It is in fact a trick question. Coventry City have never won the English Football Cup.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Sorry, I can't help ending my posts with a little provocation.

*Will try and work on that*

[Kagemusha]

I dont think that americans are ignorant.I think they are too talkative. Same goes with the rest of Western Europeans.Too much talk for a Finn,too many long sentences.Makes my head hurt.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Hum... you spent too much time at Logan airport, did you?

Louis,

my head hurt everytime I take the plane

Don

[Don Corleone]

Actually, I'm stuck in an all-day meeting listening to different product lines give their benchmark plans. My prodct line was done by 10:30, the rest of today and tomorrow, I have to try to look alert. I just say I'm 'answering email'.

When did I say 'My head hurt everytime I take the plane'?

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Am just waiting for someone to show up online before heading to TW lobby.. So don't care about me

...

Last time you flew from Logan, the holy paradise of airport booze?

*am sure it was the airtravel though*

Louis,

[Don Corleone]

Hehehe, yeah, I had a couple while I was cooling my heels. I didn't get drunk though. No hangover. I have posted on here when I'd had too much to drink & couldn't speak intelligently, but that wasn't one of those times.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I have a feeling that the working class poor in Europe read more newspapers, more informative books and watch more news than in America. They seem less anti-intellectualistic overall, less superstitious, less averse to 'high culture'. But I'd be very interested in some links or figure's. Anyone found any yet?

Thanks for proving my point. Your a bunch of snobs. We americans are so barbaric and behind the times. Someday we may become the intellectually elite as has most of Europe. Heaven forbid.

[Meneldil]

I voted "I'm not American and I think they Americans are more ignorant "

AS a lot of people said earlier, I think the american unwashed masses are far more ignorant than the european ones.
I went to America only once, but I was amazed by the people I met there. Most of them did not have a clue about what was happening in the world, and I'm fairly sure my 13 years old brother was less ignorant than some 20 years old people I met.
On the other hand, the well-educated people are just the same in every country. There's little difference between and Pakistanese (sp?) and a European well educated person (I even think that well educated people from Africa and Asia are often smarters than well educated europeans).

Of course, ignorant might means a lot of things. I suck at maths, physics, biology, english, so some might consider me as ignorant.

[Don Corleone]

I voted "I'm not American and I think they Americans are more ignorant "

AS a lot of people said earlier, I think the american unwashed masses are far more ignorant than the european ones.
I went to America only once, but I was amazed by the people I met there. Most of them did not have a clue about what was happening in the world, and I'm fairly sure my 13 years old brother was less ignorant than some 20 years old people I met.
On the other hand, the well-educated people are just the same in every country. There's little difference between and Pakistanese (sp?) and a European well educated person (I even think that well educated people from Africa and Asia are often smarters than well educated europeans).

Of course, ignorant might means a lot of things. I suck at maths, physics, biology, english, so some might consider me as ignorant.

For the record, Meneldil, do you mean unware or disagree with what you commonly believe to be the truth?

Example....in Ireland, when I visit friends, I will not discuss the issue of Israel anymore. Why? They take it as gospel that the Israelis are 100% to blame, and it's all their fault. Being kind, they assume Americans must be ignorant not to see it that way. They assume that we don't know that Israeli tanks patrol Palestinian neighborhoods or that Israeli gunships fly into the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. We're well aware of it, but we also know that Israel does this in response to rocket/mortar attacks out of those neighborhoods into Israeli neighborhoods. My Irish friends always return to 'well, if the Israelis weren't there in the first place, and in truth they have no right to be...."

This isn't ignorance of global current events, it's a different viewpoint of them.

[Kanamori]

We don't have 'unwashed masses' like in Europe

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I went to America only once, but I was amazed by the people I met there. Most of them did not have a clue about what was happening in the world, and I'm fairly sure my 13 years old brother was less ignorant than some 20 years old people I met.

By the world again you mean europe. They probably know as much about whats happening in the US as you do about whats happening in Europe and my 13 year old nephew probably knows more about whats going on in the US than you do. Does that make you more ignorant?

[Don Corleone]

I don't think Meneldil & others are referring to the average American's knowledge of European current events, per se. I think they're expressing a belief that Americans do not take the time to learn about Israel, about the Middle East at large, about Chechnya, about Africa or other parts of the globe. I honestly don't know if Americans more informed than Europeans about global events or less, but I do know Americans are more informed about them than Europeans think Americans are.

I also fail to see how knowledge of current events makes one more knowledgeable at large.

[Byzantine Prince]

This discussion has degenerated into mindless drivell. I for one want this stupid thread closed now.

[Proletariat]

You didn't find the first 50 posts (all a different version of the exact same answer) wildly stimulating, BP?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think they're expressing a belief that Americans do not take the time to learn about Israel, about the Middle East at large,

Ids say the shoes on the other foot judging by whats posted on that topic on these boards by many Europeans.

And again thats much further from our shores than say Mexico which most americans probably know more about than do Europeans since it influences us more. We all pay more attention to what affects us the most.

[Don Corleone]

This discussion has degenerated into mindless drivell. I for one want this stupid thread closed now.

What exactly is your issue with the thread BP? I see people on different sides expressing their views honestly, and then you arriving on the scene to declare it all to be mindless drivel. Would you do us the courtesy of explaining why, oh great wise one? Your humble subjects have little insight into the workings of your great & mysterious mind...

[discovery1]

This discussion has degenerated into mindless drivell. I for one want this stupid thread closed now.

Am I right in thinking you think that we are all dumb then?