Are we really all that dumb

[Meneldil]

I voted "I'm not American and I think they Americans are more ignorant "

AS a lot of people said earlier, I think the american unwashed masses are far more ignorant than the european ones.
I went to America only once, but I was amazed by the people I met there. Most of them did not have a clue about what was happening in the world, and I'm fairly sure my 13 years old brother was less ignorant than some 20 years old people I met.
On the other hand, the well-educated people are just the same in every country. There's little difference between and Pakistanese (sp?) and a European well educated person (I even think that well educated people from Africa and Asia are often smarters than well educated europeans).

Of course, ignorant might means a lot of things. I suck at maths, physics, biology, english, so some might consider me as ignorant.

[Don Corleone]

I voted "I'm not American and I think they Americans are more ignorant "

AS a lot of people said earlier, I think the american unwashed masses are far more ignorant than the european ones.
I went to America only once, but I was amazed by the people I met there. Most of them did not have a clue about what was happening in the world, and I'm fairly sure my 13 years old brother was less ignorant than some 20 years old people I met.
On the other hand, the well-educated people are just the same in every country. There's little difference between and Pakistanese (sp?) and a European well educated person (I even think that well educated people from Africa and Asia are often smarters than well educated europeans).

Of course, ignorant might means a lot of things. I suck at maths, physics, biology, english, so some might consider me as ignorant.

For the record, Meneldil, do you mean unware or disagree with what you commonly believe to be the truth?

Example....in Ireland, when I visit friends, I will not discuss the issue of Israel anymore. Why? They take it as gospel that the Israelis are 100% to blame, and it's all their fault. Being kind, they assume Americans must be ignorant not to see it that way. They assume that we don't know that Israeli tanks patrol Palestinian neighborhoods or that Israeli gunships fly into the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. We're well aware of it, but we also know that Israel does this in response to rocket/mortar attacks out of those neighborhoods into Israeli neighborhoods. My Irish friends always return to 'well, if the Israelis weren't there in the first place, and in truth they have no right to be...."

This isn't ignorance of global current events, it's a different viewpoint of them.

[Moros]

In Europe you'd find that only in the most remote, insular or mountainous area's and Belgium.

you got to be kidding, belgium is the except for the Netherlands the most crowded(couldn't find the correct word, about 315 (not sure) people /1km²) country .

ow I've found test results from the late nintys wich haves some pics but they are in dutch but since it's a word doc I can't post the links. but I'll give you some exact numbers and I'll post the link (you'll have to download it and understand dutch). note: these numbers are somewhat different then that of the test I was previously talking about.

link: http://www.ond.vlaanderen.be/onderwi...publicatie.doc

some things wich I noticed:
1)Japan and Korea have verry good results and might be the 2 best (with japan as the number 1). They were the best at maths and sience but they weren't that good with laguage (the test didn't include foreign languages.)
2)We have no reliable number of the Netherland because not enough schools participated with the test.
3) VS is about the same as the average country ( example they beated: Germany, Greece, portugal, Italy )
4)southren European countrys had less grades as more northren.
5)Mexico and Brasil had much lower grades then the other countrys.
6) Canada beaten Amarica big time!

numbers: avarage: avarage: avarage:
country: Language Maths Sience

Amarican countrys:
Canada 534 points(2nd) 533 points 529 points
VS 504 points 493 points 499 points
Mexico 422 p 387 p 422 p
Brasil(lowest!) 396 p 334 p 375 p

Northren European countrys:

Finland 546 p (highest!) 536 p 538 p
UK 523 p 529 p 499 p
Sweden 516 p 510 p 512 p
Ireland(sp?) 527 p 503 p 513 p
Noreland(sp?) 505 p 499 p 500 p
France 505 p 517 p 500 p
Flanders (me:D) 532 p 543 p 519 p
Danish 497 p 514 p 481 p

Southren European Countrys:

Austria 507 p 515 p 519 p
Italy 487 p 457 p 478 p
Spain 493 p 476 p 491 p
Swiss 494 p 529 p 496 p
Greece 474 p 447 p 461 p

Chech Rep.: 492 p 498 p 511 p

Asian:
Japan 522 p 557 p (first) 550 p (2nd)
S. Korea 525 p 547 p (2nd) 552 p (first)

Other:
Australia 528 p 533 p 528 p
New-sealand (sp?) 529 p 537 p 528 p

These are not all the countrys (but most of them) who participated but I've got to quit know. I'll post the other country's tomorrow if someones interested.

[Kanamori]

We don't have 'unwashed masses' like in Europe

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I went to America only once, but I was amazed by the people I met there. Most of them did not have a clue about what was happening in the world, and I'm fairly sure my 13 years old brother was less ignorant than some 20 years old people I met.

By the world again you mean europe. They probably know as much about whats happening in the US as you do about whats happening in Europe and my 13 year old nephew probably knows more about whats going on in the US than you do. Does that make you more ignorant?

[Don Corleone]

I don't think Meneldil & others are referring to the average American's knowledge of European current events, per se. I think they're expressing a belief that Americans do not take the time to learn about Israel, about the Middle East at large, about Chechnya, about Africa or other parts of the globe. I honestly don't know if Americans more informed than Europeans about global events or less, but I do know Americans are more informed about them than Europeans think Americans are.

I also fail to see how knowledge of current events makes one more knowledgeable at large.

[Byzantine Prince]

This discussion has degenerated into mindless drivell. I for one want this stupid thread closed now.

[Proletariat]

You didn't find the first 50 posts (all a different version of the exact same answer) wildly stimulating, BP?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think they're expressing a belief that Americans do not take the time to learn about Israel, about the Middle East at large,

Ids say the shoes on the other foot judging by whats posted on that topic on these boards by many Europeans.

And again thats much further from our shores than say Mexico which most americans probably know more about than do Europeans since it influences us more. We all pay more attention to what affects us the most.

[Don Corleone]

This discussion has degenerated into mindless drivell. I for one want this stupid thread closed now.

What exactly is your issue with the thread BP? I see people on different sides expressing their views honestly, and then you arriving on the scene to declare it all to be mindless drivel. Would you do us the courtesy of explaining why, oh great wise one? Your humble subjects have little insight into the workings of your great & mysterious mind...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

This discussion has degenerated into mindless drivell.

I have to agree with BP here. At least it did as soon as he arrived.

[Byzantine Prince]

What exactly is your issue with the thread BP? I see people on different sides expressing their views honestly, and then you arriving on the scene to declare it all to be mindless drivel. Would you do us the courtesy of explaining why, oh great wise one? Your humble subjects have little insight into the workings of your great & mysterious mind...

Does it really need explaining? *sigh*

The very concept "Are we really that dumb" is dumb. Who is dumb? Saying Americans are dumb is about as insightful as saying Chinese are smart, Canadians are mounties, New Zealanders are sheepshagers. It's pretty much the same worthless argument.

I posted something similar to this before in this thread but nobody bothered to read it or even care. They rather go on and on "well europeans are not better, and blah blah blah...". That's why it should be closed.

[Samurai Waki]

Generally speaking, I can have a conversation with a British Person about something like tax-reformation/Economics just fine, when I have a conversation with most other Americans it involves Alcohol/Woman/Cars, this isn't to say we aren't dumber than Europeans we just have different priorities

[Divinus Arma]

Does it really need explaining? *sigh*

The very concept "Are we really that dumb" is dumb. Who is dumb? Saying Americans are dumb is about as insightful as saying Chinese are smart, Canadians are mounties, New Zealanders are sheepshagers. It's pretty much the same worthless argument.

I posted something similar to this before in this thread but nobody bothered to read it or even care. They rather go on and on "well europeans are not better, and blah blah blah...". That's why it should be closed.

I just answered the poll on your behavior. I picked "behavior is deteriorating and BP should be banned right now. YES RIGHT NOW!"


I personally think this has been a stimulating, interesting, and appropriate topic. The various sides have been discussed with dignity and respect for the most part. Except for BP. Who should be banned. Yes. right now.

[discovery1]

This discussion has degenerated into mindless drivell. I for one want this stupid thread closed now.

Am I right in thinking you think that we are all dumb then?

[Louis VI the Fat]

We don't seem to have a clear definition of 'ignorance'.
To me, a highly intelligent or even highly educated person can still be ignorant. Education levels especially can be measured easily - see Prole's link.

But it's about more than that. It's also about more than being aware of what happens outside one's countries borders.

A bit late perhaps, but what would be a good definition of the ignorance - or lack thereoff - we are talking about here?

[Don Corleone]

Well, that's a fair point Louis. I guess I'd begin by asking does an intimate knowledge of current events outside one's own country make one 'informed' and a lack thereof make one 'uninformed'? Are some areas of the world more important to know about than others?

But in general, I'd say I'm looking for how closely do relative groups of people approach the goal of the 'renaissance man'. This thread has focused mostly on current events, but when it hasn't, technology/ math&science knowledge have been tossed about. What about history, both one's own and external to one's country? Literature? Art? Medicine?

And I'm not talking about the contributions of the USA or Europe, but what does the average American or average European know about these topics?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

But it's about more than that. It's also about more than being aware of what happens outside one's countries borders.

Again your comoparing apples to oranges here. Our borders are much larger than yours. We know more about whats happening between our states borders than you do. Its all relative. You know more of whats happening in say sweden but I know more of whats happening in Texas lets say. The fact that you have "nations" while we have states dosent make you more knowledgeble on the world but on your corner of it the same as we.