Shame on us

[Byzantine Prince]

I think we are overlooking a glaring issue. African nations have some of the highest growth rates in terms of population in the world. If we simply feed them and send money over there constantly without political reforms we are NOT helping them!

We are simply making the whole bigger, because their populations will rise in unsurpassed rates and we will not even be able to feed them and still feed ourselves.

This will only be fixed plitically Don. Don't tell me to keep that out of the discussion. You may not see what's probably going to hapen there but I do.

Yes Niger is probably a special case and sending them aid is good, but if they need aid every single year with no sign of improvement then my case for the subject stands.

[Don Corleone]

I think we are overlooking a glaring issue. African nations have some of the highest growth rates in terms of population in the world. If we simply feed them and send money over there constantly without political reforms we are NOT helping them!

We are simply making the whole bigger, because their populations will rise in unsurpassed rates and we will not even be able to feed them and still feed ourselves.

This will only be fixed plitically Don. Don't tell me to keep that out of the discussion. You may not see what's probably going to hapen there but I do.

Yes Niger is probably a special case and sending them aid is good, but if they need aid every single year with no sign of improvement then my case for the subject stands.

Okay, BP, just to prove to you that I don't live under a rock, let me point out a few facts to you:

-Fact: It was the United States, not Canada and not Europe that brokered a peace deal between the rebels & the government in the Sudan in January. It was this peace deal that allowed for power sharing that put VP Garang into office in the first place.

-Fact: There are ways to encourage intelligent population control. That doesn't mean that the Western World should pay for a Planned Parethood clinic in every village in Africa.

-Fact: The world already produces enough food to guarantee that there need never be hunger again, anywhere. The fact that it exists is obscene.

-Fact: If you go search the web, you will find that most organizations dedicated to ending world hunger link that issue to forced income redistribution. One shouldn't be forced to become a Marxist in order to work to end hunger.

I'm not saying we cannot talk about the political causes and solutions to hunger. I'm saying that blaming the US solely for the troubles in the Sudan, as you did earlier is 1) foolishly ignorant and wrong 2) not helping feeding a single person.

[A.Saturnus]

As much as it pains me to say but what BP says cannot be dismissed lightly. It´s not just a question of "do it or don´t do it". There´s simply no quick answer on how we can help Africa. Sure, we can send food to Niger now. And to the next famine and the next. But there is a very real possibility that helping during a famine will ensure that we will have to help during the next as well. Africa´s problem is rooted deeply: they have much more people than their corrupted societies can care for. And only a fundamental change in the sociocultural makeup of their societies can change that.
I know, you might say that I´m making it myself easy by saying the issue is too complex for me to solve, and I guess that´s actually true in a way. But the issue is complex. I see a very big problem coming, much bigger than anything we have seen so far and I have no idea how to prevent it. What´s the better excuse, being too lazy or too dumb to help?

[Don Corleone]

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter Saturnus, and your 2nd post for that matter, BP. I simply don't see how declaring the US soley to blame for the Sudan has anything to do with solving hunger in Botswana, Peru, or even the US for that matter.

I understand fully that systemic changes beyond 'grow more food' need to be implemented. Hell, look at all the relief agency food that sat on the docks & rotted in Somalia back in 1992 because the warlords were using famine as a weapon.

But you know, at the end of the day, you don't have to solve it all. You just have to do what you can. And we haven't.

[Devastatin Dave]

I'm in support of debt relief, its not like you'll ever get the money back anyway. Don, there are many churches that do missionary work and oftem adopt entire villages and support those villiages with education, financial support, and even man power to help build homes and school houses. The key to helping the African plight is a two way street. Help them help themselves. Unfortunately I as well as many others don't do enough. I sae that program myself earlier last week and was deeply moved. Many times in the past I've said, "Not my problem", but since seeing that news cast I've changed my mind. Staring into the eyes of a helpless human being, even through a TV screen, has changed my mind. I'm shamed as well. I'm going to look into what my church does for the folks in Africa. I know we have missions that go there yearly. I've got to do something and I'm sure, whatever political belief you or anyone else on the Org have, have it in them to do more. And for those that are already helping these people, God bless you.

[Strike For The South]

Giving aid is great I do it and its a great feeling...but BP is right when he says something needs to be done about growth rates,Aids,Genocide. that might ease some of the suffering. (Niger definitely has had some horrible luck though)

[JAG]

It has been over the news here for a few days, it is a shame on all of us, I totally agree with you Don.

I also don't see how there is a conflict between giving aid / food etc and wanting political reforms home and in the African countries themselves. Both can and should be done, we shouldn't really be bickering about which is more important, but doing all of them.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I also don't see how there is a conflict between giving aid / food etc and wanting political reforms home and in the African countries themselves. Both can and should be done, we shouldn't really be bickering about which is more important, but doing all of them.

So we should just suck it up and give to the People's Red Bread Basket Organization? (Yeah, I made it up. Humor me.)

[Franconicus]

If somebody needs help, if lizzel children are suffering then it is not the time to ask who has done something wrong, whose fault it is. We should help! I totally agree with you, Don.

I know the 'Brot für die Welt' program here in Germany. It is from the Catholic church. They collect money tofight hunger in the world. Do not know if 'Bread for the World' is the same.

[PanzerJaeger]

I agree fully with Cube.. Africa is not America's responsibility and as long as we have significant problems with poverty in this country its irresponsible to try and fix African problems.

And if your conscience is killing you Don, give money to some Christian charities, they do a hell of a lot more good than the child-raping UN.

[Lazul]

And if your conscience is killing you Don, give money to some Christian charities, they do a hell of a lot more good than the child-raping UN.

what!? my friend in the UN is a child rapist! NOOOooooo....

rather silly comment there Panzy

[PanzerJaeger]

You may want to read a bit about the UN "mission" in the Congo.. that is, if you have a strong stomach.

[Don Corleone]

I don't think I made myself very clear if people think I saw the famine footage and decided I just needed to do something to help the famine victims. I saw the famine footage and I had an epiphany, a simple thought entered my mind, There is absolutely no reason for hunger anywhere in the world. Yes, by all means, it is incumbent on me to try to end it here in the United States. It's also incumbent on me to try to end it wherever else it exists.

I found a charity I actually think takes a great approach. It's called Project Heifer. It was featured on 60 Minutes (but don't let that slow you down). Rather than feeding people, their approach is more long term. The money you donate buys an animal that is given to a member of a village someplace. They also are trained on how to care for and raise the animal. When the animal has offspring, the pass the gift on to other members of their village. Their big focus is long term sustainable strategies.

For short-term, urgent relief, I sponsored a child on World Vision. I know I need to learn more, do more, but for the time being, until I know more, this is as good as anything I can come up with.

If anybody's interested in finding a charity that meets their personal requirements for giving, I HIGHLY recommend Charity Navigator It helps you find charities for any cause you think needs your help, will tell you how well they do in terms of transferring funds to actual project work, what the CEO's salary is, and how that charity stacks up against others doing the same work.

[Azi Tohak]

So let me get this straight...

1. We feed little Mr and Mrs Starvin' Marvin. They grow up happy.
2. Mr and Mrs Starvin' Marvin make more little Mr and Mrs Starvin Marvin
3. Mommy and Daddy can't feed the little ones so now we get to feed the little ones in addition to the big ones
4. The little ones grow up and then make a third generation. And we get to feed them too.
5. Where does it end?

Don, I like you and I respect you. But I don't see why I should give a crap about the worlds largest virus maker. The continent used to able to feed itself. Now it can't. Why is that? Too many people. How do you get rid of too many people? They die. What makes the death of one little kid in Africa any sadder than the death of one little kid in the US or Europe?

Also, as GC pointed out:

In the United States, 13 million children live in households where people have to skip meals or eat less to make ends meet. That means one in ten households in the U.S. are living with hunger or are at risk of hunger.

We don't follow the same pattern as Africa does. I know France doesn't for example (what, 1.2 kids per woman? oh crap...). I don't think we can fix Africa's starving problems. But we can fix the problems in the US and Europe. I will check out your sites Don. Personally, I've always liked the Salvation Army.

Azi

[Lazul]

Africa is the way it couse ever since Europe and America and Asia to I would say became more powerfull then Africa they have raped the nation.
They divided Africa between themselfs with no respect for cultural and ethnic borders.
Africa can produce alot of food, africa got huge amounts of natural resourses and africa has potential. But what it all comes down to are the wars, endless wars and conflicts that we of the west do little to stop.

In the ancient times kingdomes could justifie their existance and ruling due to the fact that they could organize food production and then store away the surpluss so when the drought came, wich they knew allways came from time to time they could take the stored food and deliever it to the needy.

I doubt that nations in africa has become so backwards that they cant do what ancient kingdomes had the capability to do then. The reason african nations often dont have the capability to store away surplus food is couse most money goes to the army since there is allways one or two conflicts in a bordering nation.

Peace = less money to the military = more money to produce food.
The west shouldnt just thorw money at africa but focus on making peace and the rest will solve itself.

well thats all I got to say about that.

(oh, and if a nation wants to go Socialist or Communist, for the love of your God! Dont stop them!)