disapointed with rtr, you are my last hope

**khelvan** · 08-03-2005, 16:02

Please try to avoid any comparisons between mods here, especially since none of you (including the closed beta testers) have seen what EB really has to offer yet.

On focus - EB is attempting to give the peoples of the period who had the opportunity to become great their due. This includes those that DID become great (the Romans, for instance) and those that were conquered.

It is up to the player to decide the course of history. Will great nations be destroyed and relegated to near obscurity, as they were in history? Or will they instead make their mark as a lasting civilization?

In this respect, we focus on those nations that attempted to conquer the world, or at least parts of it, and try to make each of them as historically accurate as possible. We do not want to force history to repeat itself (i.e. the same civilizations always win, and others are always shown as bumps in the road) but rather to set the table so that the player may decide the course of history based on initial parameters (and perhaps a few nudges in the first few years).

We're not "focused on barbarians," we give all people equal weight in our research. The Romans and Greeks were not the only civilizations that had power or culture in the period.

They were merely the victors.

**infierno** · 08-03-2005, 16:13

what i must say is: EB "SEEMS" to be much more prepared and organized, with a very very pre-organized objetives: what we whant to make? with time and order

rtr is a small mod that has raised with less orders and with non-linked ideas

always with the word "SEEMS" but this is my opinion, after playing 6.0 i pray for a patch 6.5 to fix this if posible

next step is BI with 7.0

our final stop is EB

**jerby** · 08-03-2005, 18:27

well. another minor point of critisism is the cavalry. the Hetairoi look great, absolutly terrifiing. but Every unit of cav has teh same charge bonus, thats not right:weight is an issue, and breed of horses...
also, why are there 8 different pikemen. "levie" pikemen, and a stand-up: pezetairoi. but why so freaking many!?! also, the hoplites look exactly like pikemen (length doesnt differ much, neither does shield-size) and some hoplites also have 60 men (normal-settings) in stead of 40. balancing is weird!

Nice mod, Huge step up. But graphic-wise not like EB (what we've seen). and I HATE RTR for keeping the "chosen swordsmen". i havent seen teh building system of EB, nor have i sene teh balancing. but god i hope its better than RTR, i know it can be so.

**Silver Rusher** · 08-03-2005, 19:01

I agree. RTR is completely unbalanced. Playing as the Parthians you could win the campaign without ever using cavalry (except with generals) because they have so much infantry, even decent phalanxes, open to them. Also, the map extensions are quite poorly designed IMO, especially when compared with MM (map making genius there) or even the vanilla map, which isn't very detailed as it is. Scotland just looks wrong and the eastern extensions are blaaaand.

Rome Total Realism isn't even very realistic/accurate either. The Gauls have a province in the middle of bloody Turkey (they must have been confused between Gaul and Gallatia). Epirus, Syracuse and several other independant states are members of the Greek Cities faction (they should have just chosen one greek faction and stuck with it, its just unbelievably inaccurate as it is). Illyria is in the game, a faction with quite poor influence, especially compared to Dacia, which they took out to combine with Thrace.

EDIT: If the information I supplied is in any way wrong, correct me by any means, but at least I won't be making a "realism" mod with incorrect information about history.

**bodidley** · 08-03-2005, 22:19

There is a major difference between cultural identity and political control. On the basis of identity that would put the Galatians under the control of Gaul, all of the Macedonian successor states would be under one faction!

**Jebus** · 08-03-2005, 22:20

IMHO, the thing that bugs me most is that almost all elephant units in RTR have about 20 hitpoints.

OK, Elephants are quite strong, but you're not going to fool me into believing you couldn't kill one with three units of velites tossing all their spears at them...

Other than that, it is quite fun. I haven't really played all that much, but I like what I see. The only problem is that the over-balance of every faction has lead to quite unrealistic situations: in my current game (as the Romans), the Samaritans have just conquered Makedonia. Hmm.

**bouis** · 08-03-2005, 22:25

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

**jerby** · 08-03-2005, 22:43

charge does nothing?argh...didnt know that, i tought that was a +"charge bonus" for the attack-number, damn CA.
well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

PS: i really dont want to offend you. my english is so 'good' that i sometimes piss peopel of without meaning to do it. srry

**Keyser** · 08-03-2005, 23:15

Originally Posted by jerby

well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

I guess the "italian" AOR units are meant to represents the various people that rome fought early in her history, the "socii" who fought as an "alae" for each roman legion later and the peoples who joined Pyrrhus and Hannibal against Rome when they invaded Italy. For me that make sense.

As to the meaning of the stats for units i too have sometimes some difficulty to understand the balance, check if they can form in wedge, if they have a secondary attack or their numbers (or their morale etc). Italian allied cavalry was far better than the roman one but to have them superior to Macedonian Hetairoï would be strange to say the least.

**King of Atlantis** · 08-03-2005, 23:20

Originally Posted by bouis

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

hey good mod, but the barbs do seemed a little left out. That would be my only problme with rtr

**jerby** · 08-03-2005, 23:26

wedge is nerfed, so that doesnt matter. I Can't comprehend why merc's in Italy have superior def/atk in comparison to Hetairo;arguably the best cav of that era.

I btw like the fact they toned down teh number of elephants. and upped teh number of men on a tower. ( only saw seleucid elie btw)

Another compliment goes to the shield that teh general wields (romans) but again: why not with All factions, the empty left arm looks lame. ( or is it a 2-handed short sword

)

also nice work on teh new captains

@cube, they look cool, and are inferior. so what? i was just asking if they have a factual justification for the unit. not flaming or bashing. just curious. (and hoping for a pretty picture

)