disapointed with rtr, you are my last hope

**jerby** · 08-03-2005, 18:27

well. another minor point of critisism is the cavalry. the Hetairoi look great, absolutly terrifiing. but Every unit of cav has teh same charge bonus, thats not right:weight is an issue, and breed of horses...
also, why are there 8 different pikemen. "levie" pikemen, and a stand-up: pezetairoi. but why so freaking many!?! also, the hoplites look exactly like pikemen (length doesnt differ much, neither does shield-size) and some hoplites also have 60 men (normal-settings) in stead of 40. balancing is weird!

Nice mod, Huge step up. But graphic-wise not like EB (what we've seen). and I HATE RTR for keeping the "chosen swordsmen". i havent seen teh building system of EB, nor have i sene teh balancing. but god i hope its better than RTR, i know it can be so.

**Silver Rusher** · 08-03-2005, 19:01

I agree. RTR is completely unbalanced. Playing as the Parthians you could win the campaign without ever using cavalry (except with generals) because they have so much infantry, even decent phalanxes, open to them. Also, the map extensions are quite poorly designed IMO, especially when compared with MM (map making genius there) or even the vanilla map, which isn't very detailed as it is. Scotland just looks wrong and the eastern extensions are blaaaand.

Rome Total Realism isn't even very realistic/accurate either. The Gauls have a province in the middle of bloody Turkey (they must have been confused between Gaul and Gallatia). Epirus, Syracuse and several other independant states are members of the Greek Cities faction (they should have just chosen one greek faction and stuck with it, its just unbelievably inaccurate as it is). Illyria is in the game, a faction with quite poor influence, especially compared to Dacia, which they took out to combine with Thrace.

EDIT: If the information I supplied is in any way wrong, correct me by any means, but at least I won't be making a "realism" mod with incorrect information about history.

**bodidley** · 08-03-2005, 22:19

There is a major difference between cultural identity and political control. On the basis of identity that would put the Galatians under the control of Gaul, all of the Macedonian successor states would be under one faction!

**Jebus** · 08-03-2005, 22:20

IMHO, the thing that bugs me most is that almost all elephant units in RTR have about 20 hitpoints.

OK, Elephants are quite strong, but you're not going to fool me into believing you couldn't kill one with three units of velites tossing all their spears at them...

Other than that, it is quite fun. I haven't really played all that much, but I like what I see. The only problem is that the over-balance of every faction has lead to quite unrealistic situations: in my current game (as the Romans), the Samaritans have just conquered Makedonia. Hmm.

**bouis** · 08-03-2005, 22:25

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

**jerby** · 08-03-2005, 22:43

charge does nothing?argh...didnt know that, i tought that was a +"charge bonus" for the attack-number, damn CA.
well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

PS: i really dont want to offend you. my english is so 'good' that i sometimes piss peopel of without meaning to do it. srry

**Keyser** · 08-03-2005, 23:15

Originally Posted by jerby

well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

I guess the "italian" AOR units are meant to represents the various people that rome fought early in her history, the "socii" who fought as an "alae" for each roman legion later and the peoples who joined Pyrrhus and Hannibal against Rome when they invaded Italy. For me that make sense.

As to the meaning of the stats for units i too have sometimes some difficulty to understand the balance, check if they can form in wedge, if they have a secondary attack or their numbers (or their morale etc). Italian allied cavalry was far better than the roman one but to have them superior to Macedonian Hetairoï would be strange to say the least.

**King of Atlantis** · 08-03-2005, 23:20

Originally Posted by bouis

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

hey good mod, but the barbs do seemed a little left out. That would be my only problme with rtr

**jerby** · 08-03-2005, 23:26

wedge is nerfed, so that doesnt matter. I Can't comprehend why merc's in Italy have superior def/atk in comparison to Hetairo;arguably the best cav of that era.

I btw like the fact they toned down teh number of elephants. and upped teh number of men on a tower. ( only saw seleucid elie btw)

Another compliment goes to the shield that teh general wields (romans) but again: why not with All factions, the empty left arm looks lame. ( or is it a 2-handed short sword

)

also nice work on teh new captains

@cube, they look cool, and are inferior. so what? i was just asking if they have a factual justification for the unit. not flaming or bashing. just curious. (and hoping for a pretty picture

)

**bouis** · 08-03-2005, 23:38

Well I can't really comment on specific unit stats... as I'm sure you can imagine there was a variety of approaches tried and various opinions on approaches and implimentations and so forth within the team.

One thing you should look at is the distribution of defense between armor and skill/shield, plus the morale, upkeep costs, and so forth.

About the number of elephants... check out the number of forest elephants with one rider in a unit.. and try to figure out how we accomplished that... :)

As for the "barb" factions, fleshing them out more is a goal for the next major release.

**jerby** · 08-03-2005, 23:56

well. the elephant thing is a compliment, i really liked it.
ok, i'll look it up.

((-def:armor,skill))

Hetairoi (20 units)
-atk:12
-def:12, 6, 0 (18)

italian:
-atk:12
-def:8,10 (18)

so hetairoi indeed have better armor (slight) but ,somehow, are less capable of defending themselves with teh sarissa, while the italian cav wields (about, dunno) the exact same spear. did the *poor* merc get better training than the *rich* hetairoi?
I dont follow...

**Keyser** · 08-04-2005, 00:09

Originally Posted by jerby

@cube, they look cool, and are inferior. so what? i was just asking if they have a factual justification for the unit. not flaming or bashing. just curious. (and hoping for a pretty picture

)

I guess the inspiration came from some osprey pictures and some thought on how the italian fought and how represent some generic aor italian units, for the picture it's the one on this page showing a lucanian a samnite and a campanian i guess. http://www.slitherine.com/Legion/Campaign_1.htm

**jerby** · 08-04-2005, 00:14

keyser, ah i see, thanks. i'm sorry i was distrustfull..

is this an RTR fabrication, or has RTW always doen that. looks very, very gamy. can this be modded?
used Indain elie, for show. looks nice. altough there is also a unit with 2 Elies, and 4 bowmen (on each!!) wich looks even better