disapointed with rtr, you are my last hope

[TheTank]

Eb is most definately barbarian-centric. I'm not saying they don't work on civilized factions too, but it's clear that they are giving priority to barbarians. There's way too many Barbarian Factions for my tastes; I personally think you could get by with 2 or 3.

RTR 6.0 is such a vast leap over 5.4.1 that it's not even the same mod. There's a new intro, new skins for every unit, new loading screens, new music, new everything. It's very impressive. I'm not going to get into an EB/RTR pissing contest (I plan on playing both), but anyone who plays RTW owes it to themselves to try this mod.

Dear Gelatinous Cube

Do you know that EB has removed one "barbaric" faction for a Hellenic one.
They have replaced Numidia with Bactria.
This action is not very barbaric centric from EB !

The case of 2-3 barbaric factions.
You can argue from a roman or hellenic centric point of view that the Germanic tribes,Britons and the Sarmatians where not very important because there was not much direct contact with these 3 barbaric groups and the Greek/Roman world during the time period that EB is using for this mod.
But from a gallic point of view the Germans where very important because the germans where very expansize force.
The Germans (and Dacia) where pushing the gauls from central europe and they where also very interested in Gaul...they did like to raid and invade gaul
The Britons where also very important for the gauls because they where kin, trade partners (Tin,Gold etc) enemies and allies..
The sarmatians where a very important force in eastern europe.
Sarmatians where greatly responsible for the dimise of the Scytians.
Removing the Germans,Britons, the Sarmatians and maybe also the Dacians wil make EB (allot) less realisticly if you are playing the Gauls because you don't have the presure from the Germans, Britons and Dacians and also important It will make playing a Barb faction very boring......

[infierno]

guys lets take a look after the initial shock release

first of all, in their official DID YOU LIKE RTR 6.0 poll, half of people voted BEFORE play or even dl it, but they were "sure" the mod will be good


i got this answer to my "REMOVE UNITS OF CUSTOM BATTLE!! THERE IS NO WEAKNESS IN FACTIONS NOW" THAS NOT REALISTIC GERMANS CAN HIRE ELEPHANTS --> answer: dont buy it OMG!!!!!!!!! so lets make a elephant with MG's in its top, but if you dont like it DONT BUY!

the skins are... i miss unified colors for the army...
why make a city if i can fight with mercenarys?
moral is low for all, battles last very few seconds specially with phalanx
too many phalanx


i can see the pros of this mod man.... maybe some skins and more accuarate units

bad mod + buggy game = uninstall and back to bf2

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

the skins are... i miss unified colors for the army...

But unified colors for an army is ahistoric. You did download a mod called Rome: Total Realism, didn't you?

And the community surrounding a mod is not the main concern of the mod - if people are rude, don't talk to them, but don't blame the .exe file. And people may get defensive like then when EB comes out; you can't know really.

I have yet to really try RTR6 yet (dl-ed it and just got it running last night) so I can't comment about bugs like the custom battle unit selection or about mercenary systems or morale. But there will be mods and patches for RTR6, just like there were for RTR5 - I'd garantee it. For now, put away RTR6, but maybe you should wait before permamently dismissing it.

[Colovion]

Eb is most definately barbarian-centric. I'm not saying they don't work on civilized factions too, but it's clear that they are giving priority to barbarians. There's way too many Barbarian Factions for my tastes; I personally think you could get by with 2 or 3.

your comment is essentially saying:

"I feel that Race Car drivers pay way too much attention to making their cars fast. I mean we get it; you drive fast cars - now concentrate on something else."

This is a mod dealing with HISTORICAL ACCURACY. Historically Europe didn't merely have 2 or 3 'barbarian' tribes. They had many more than the EB mod is portraying, but the amount portrayed in the EB mod will be the most accurate representation possible for the limits the game allots to the modders. Priority to the barbarians? Hardly. How about a priority to History.

Telling a modding team which attempts to base their modding decisions on history to merely cut parts of history out because you don't feel it's warranted is absurd. Please realize this.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

I know there were a lot of posts in response to yours GC, but I'd just like to say that I have some sympathy with the guys in Eb who keep complaining that we are spending too much time on the Hellenistic factions. Honestly, it seems like we've had a lot more guys who are interested in beefing up Hellenistic factions' descriptions, traits, etc. than we've had working on the barb ones. It's not to say that we don't have excellent people working on the barb ones, but it's just that more folks have been contributing to text and other conceptual improvements to the Hellenistic ones than we've had on the other side. Some of it is a bias inherent to ancient sources--we've got lots more info on the unique buildings for the east and Hellenic areas to be honest, so there will probably be more buildings there, but we've tried to add a lot to the other areas too whenever we see something that fits our time frame and was of some importance (and unique). From things like all new skins to thousands of new and detailed names to more accurate provinces to banners to unique buildings to new faction buildings, etc., we've got plenty of new improvement for the 'civilized' factions. Just can't wait to show them all to you!!

[Keyser]

I played a bit more to RTR, i quite like it. I like most of the skins, i like the aor (though it could be worked a bit more). I don't care that much about what the gauls really are or the greeks as those factions were an abstraction in vanilla too. They had to make some decisions given the limited number of factions available and it's they way they went. I agree galatia should rather have been a rebel province, but after all why say no to a generic "celtic" faction ? It's a choice.

However the moral seem indeed a bit low (but for the moment nothing exagerated). The same charge bonus for all cavalry while not that important in my eyes is indeed a bit lame and the aor units for all the factions in the multiplayer and custom battles is a wrong idea (they should have only let the aor units the factions used historically).

For the mercenaries, i don't know... I like using mercenaries even in vanilla and rtr 5.4 i used tons of them so i am maybe biased. But it's true there is quite a large variety available easily. On the other hand mercenaries were widely used historically...

For the parthians being able to use too much infantry, depend of their conquests, historically because they needed mobile army they didn't relyed on infantry but they could have raised lots of infantry from the subjugated peoples if they had wanted (much like the achemenid and the sassanid). So i don't see the problem.

[Chester]

For heaven sake. Given RTR some time. Patches will enhance it I"m sure, having said that-----Your armies to start off with are not all that good, therefore you're forced to retrain and keep units alive, so that later on they'll have enough experience and better weapon grade so that they CAN fight a long battle.

[bodidley]

There is a major difference between cultural identity and political control. On the basis of identity that would put the Galatians under the control of Gaul, all of the Macedonian successor states would be under one faction!

[Jebus]

IMHO, the thing that bugs me most is that almost all elephant units in RTR have about 20 hitpoints.

OK, Elephants are quite strong, but you're not going to fool me into believing you couldn't kill one with three units of velites tossing all their spears at them...


Other than that, it is quite fun. I haven't really played all that much, but I like what I see. The only problem is that the over-balance of every faction has lead to quite unrealistic situations: in my current game (as the Romans), the Samaritans have just conquered Makedonia. Hmm.

[bouis]

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

[Mongoose]

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

Have you played EB? the team has stated many times that they will focus as much on other factions as the "Barbarians".

I can criticize all I please. A mod is no good without criticism. I've already said I plan on playing it, but it helps nobody for you to shout "Heretic!" when someone dislikes a particular aspect of the mod.

You can criticize all you want, no one is debating that. How ever, you criticism is based on ignorant guessing...not facts.

[jerby]

charge does nothing?argh...didnt know that, i tought that was a +"charge bonus" for the attack-number, damn CA.
well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

PS: i really dont want to offend you. my english is so 'good' that i sometimes piss peopel of without meaning to do it. srry

[Keyser]

well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

I guess the "italian" AOR units are meant to represents the various people that rome fought early in her history, the "socii" who fought as an "alae" for each roman legion later and the peoples who joined Pyrrhus and Hannibal against Rome when they invaded Italy. For me that make sense.

As to the meaning of the stats for units i too have sometimes some difficulty to understand the balance, check if they can form in wedge, if they have a secondary attack or their numbers (or their morale etc). Italian allied cavalry was far better than the roman one but to have them superior to Macedonian Hetairoï would be strange to say the least.

[King of Atlantis]

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

hey good mod, but the barbs do seemed a little left out. That would be my only problme with rtr

[jerby]

wedge is nerfed, so that doesnt matter. I Can't comprehend why merc's in Italy have superior def/atk in comparison to Hetairo;arguably the best cav of that era.

I btw like the fact they toned down teh number of elephants. and upped teh number of men on a tower. ( only saw seleucid elie btw)

Another compliment goes to the shield that teh general wields (romans) but again: why not with All factions, the empty left arm looks lame. ( or is it a 2-handed short sword )

also nice work on teh new captains

@cube, they look cool, and are inferior. so what? i was just asking if they have a factual justification for the unit. not flaming or bashing. just curious. (and hoping for a pretty picture )

[bouis]

Well I can't really comment on specific unit stats... as I'm sure you can imagine there was a variety of approaches tried and various opinions on approaches and implimentations and so forth within the team.

One thing you should look at is the distribution of defense between armor and skill/shield, plus the morale, upkeep costs, and so forth.

About the number of elephants... check out the number of forest elephants with one rider in a unit.. and try to figure out how we accomplished that... :)

As for the "barb" factions, fleshing them out more is a goal for the next major release.

[jerby]

well. the elephant thing is a compliment, i really liked it.
ok, i'll look it up.

((-def:armor,skill))

Hetairoi (20 units)
-atk:12
-def:12, 6, 0 (18)

italian:
-atk:12
-def:8,10 (18)

so hetairoi indeed have better armor (slight) but ,somehow, are less capable of defending themselves with teh sarissa, while the italian cav wields (about, dunno) the exact same spear. did the *poor* merc get better training than the *rich* hetairoi?
I dont follow...

[Keyser]

@cube, they look cool, and are inferior. so what? i was just asking if they have a factual justification for the unit. not flaming or bashing. just curious. (and hoping for a pretty picture )

I guess the inspiration came from some osprey pictures and some thought on how the italian fought and how represent some generic aor italian units, for the picture it's the one on this page showing a lucanian a samnite and a campanian i guess. http://www.slitherine.com/Legion/Campaign_1.htm

[jerby]

keyser, ah i see, thanks. i'm sorry i was distrustfull..


is this an RTR fabrication, or has RTW always doen that. looks very, very gamy. can this be modded?
used Indain elie, for show. looks nice. altough there is also a unit with 2 Elies, and 4 bowmen (on each!!) wich looks even better

[King of Atlantis]

As for the "barb" factions, fleshing them out more is a goal for the next major release.

good to hear

[Simetrical]

is this an RTR fabrication, or has RTW always doen that. looks very, very gamy. can this be modded?

That's a holdover from vanilla. There's a trait that the elephant and chariot melee attacks have called "launching" which probably causes it, but I don't know exactly what turning it off would do. It might cause undesirable side-effects of some sort.

-Simetrical

[Wardo]

I'm eagerly looking forward to EB, but I'm enjoyning RTR6.0 alot, it's a very well done mod and I'd really like to thank everyone involved in the process of creating that mod, from modders to people who donated to keep their site alive.

EB can take advantage from this release and learn from the RTR6.0 experience, what works, what don't work too well, what should be tweaked, etc..

The more mods the better, it is amazing what a bunch of volunteers can do to a game, RTR6.0 is already far, far better than vanilla, Creative Assembly would profit and sell tons more of a possible future TW title if they fired their entire crew and hired instead the RTR or EB team, or even just hired you guys as consultants, seriously.

[khelvan]

EB can take advantage from this release and learn from the RTR6.0 experience, what works, what don't work too well, what should be tweaked, etc..

It's nice in theory, but we don't have enough people with knowledge of the files to do all the coding we need to do, much less break down the code of other mods, even those similar enough to what we're doing to be of use to us.

[Divinus Arma]

I am installing rtr6 as I write this. I could not help but notice a few EB team members in the team acknowledgements including.... khelvan?

[jerby]

well, acknowledgement....
if you mean me, i've been around here quite a while. but that doesn't mean i wont play rtr until EB is there. Khelvan only stated EB's imcapability to go threw the codes of RTR. But i agree with Wardo, EB members shoudl play RTR, see if anything/what's wrong with it. mostly balancing issues

[O_Stratigos]

EB members shoudl play RTR

Are you crazy?! They should work harder to finish EB ffs, and you ask them to "play??!!

[Wishazu]

@ Infierno, for starters, your not supposed to charge your cavalry into a prepared infantry unit, regardless of whether they have spears or not, cavalry allways needed to be supported by infantry or it was doomed. as to the amount of phalanx units, the phalanx was still the dominant tactical formation in this time period even a couple of centuries later Ceasar remarked on Germanians fighting in a "phalanx formation"

[Shaun]

well i really like RTR, and dont see why anyone who likes EB wont like RTR as they are both Historical acurracey mods!

[Chester]

When EB comes out a sect of people will piss all over that mod as well. There will probably be a few bugs here and there and things will get tweaked a bit in future patches.

I think RTR launch for 6.0 was more of a success than a failure. Some new formations, sound mod, and fixing of minor bugs will make that game great.

It saddens me that people give it so much hell. MAXIMUS I has gone out of his way, in just about every post of his, to tell people that he is upset with 6.0 and that he is NOW playing SPQR, because he enjoys SPQR.

Reporting bugs and glitches is one thing, comparing mods and proclaiming that you're going to ignore one of them is a bit childish.

[Copperhaired Berserker!]

RTR will not be played by me, especially having bouis attacking EB and defending RTR.