Fall of Constantinople

**Budwise** · 08-04-2005, 10:24

I found this very fasinating,

http://campus.northpark.edu/history/...onstantin.html

It describes how Constantinople fell to the Turks and I am actually jelous because that would have been a pretty awesome fight to play out. Too bad the Total War Battle Engine couldn't handle it.

**Budwise** · 08-04-2005, 10:28

Better information here

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1426071

**edyzmedieval** · 08-04-2005, 10:29

I know....

Not even in RTW.....

**Advo-san** · 08-04-2005, 12:46

Since you seem to be interested to the story of the fall let me give you something to think over:

An alternative approach to the story of the Kekroporta

1)Explaining the word.Kekroporta in greek means "the door of Kekrops". The question of course is WHO was Kekrops and WHY was his name given to a gate in Constantinople.
According to Ancient Greek Mythology, Kekrops was the first king of the City of Athens, in the years long before the famous Athenian Republic. He was supposed to be half man- half snake and he was supposed to have been a great king. Just, brave, a fine example of an athenian (and so=ancient/classical Greek) iluminated monarch.
2)But what was his name doing in Constantinople? The City was built by Conhstantine to the spot where an ancient city was, the ancient greek city of Byzantium, founded by a man named Byzantas. But, Byzantas was not Athenian, he was from Megara, a long-hatred rival of Athens, so he couldn't have named a gate after his rival's king.
Mabe the gate was named after Kekrops by Constantine, or by another emperor later on. Maybe.... But, all emperors exept Julianus were Christians, and it is highly impossible that they would hunt down the Old Religion with their one hand and pay tribute to "idolaters" with their other, by naming gates in their capital after "pagan" kings vis a vis demigods- half men half snakes. This just doesn't seem right....
3)Okay, lets find more about this Gate...Well, you can't. Kekroporta is mentioned only once in ancient scripts; the first and the last time we encounter it is during the Fall of Constantinople. Not another word can't be found about this damn door, even to the most extensive descriptions of Constantinople.
4)It is simple. The Kekroporta didn't exist.The Kekroporta is a story that was made up to explain the Fall, a scape goat that would allow the survival of the Empire's glory to eternity, even though the Empire was gone. The Empire wouldn't have fallen if the Kekroporta wasn't left open by treachery or negligence....
5)Ok. It didn't exist. But why name the scape goat "Kekroporta"? Why use the name of Kekrops to put the blame for the Fall?I have a theory to explain this "Why", but since I m not sure whether anyone is interested about all this, I 'll post my theory if anyone is interested in reading it.

**Shottie** · 08-04-2005, 13:13

I am interested. PM me it if you don't want a flame war started on this.

**Advo-san** · 08-04-2005, 13:18

No flame war guaranteed. It is a bit large, I 'll write it ASAP.

**Advo-san** · 08-04-2005, 14:30

6)IMHO there was a gap running deep into the imperial society. From the one side, there was the military nobility, rich families from the eastern provinces, god-feared rednecks that fought like lions. From the other side, there was the intellectual, highly-educated court nobility, who was pulling all the strings and monopolized the throne and the positions around it.
The first time I 've encountered this separating line was an article in an early-20th sentury encyclopedia that was reffering to the Destruction of Mazikert.
Romanus Diogenis, a typical example of a military noble, overthrew the previous imperial family but was destroyed not because his enemies where stronger but because he couldn't countermeasure the hostility of his Court. His generals betraied him in the most crucial point of his career
That is the significance of the Kekroporta . All those members of the Court, that plotted more than they fought, made and broke alliances, who preffered the book than the sword and knew Homer's and Plato's works by heart, those were the reason that the Empire was perished. This is what must have been the thoughts of the people that created the legend of the Kekroporta.

**crpcarrot** · 08-04-2005, 14:31

i've read many accounts of the fall of constantinople but never one from the turkish perspective anyone got any links to that?

**PittBull260** · 08-04-2005, 21:19

IMO the Turks completely owned the Christians, not by some open port gate or something, but by assaulting the walls with superb muslim soldiers =)

**Advo-san** · 08-05-2005, 08:22

Originally Posted by PittBull260

IMO the Turks completely owned the Christians, not by some open port gate or something, but by assaulting the walls with superb muslim soldiers =)

I agree, that is the meaning of the argument I posted above. Kekroporta was a myth. But I also tried to explain the significance of that myth.

BTW, Kekroporta has nothing to do with any "port", -porta is the greek word for "door". So "Kekroport" or "Kekroporta" is a gate, not a port or a port door.

**edyzmedieval** · 08-05-2005, 08:45

Originally Posted by Advo-san

I agree, that is the meaning of the argument I posted above. Kekroporta was a myth. But I also tried to explain the significance of that myth.

BTW, Kekroporta has nothing to do with any "port", -porta is the greek word for "door". So "Kekroport" or "Kekroporta" is a gate, not a port or a port door.

What do you mean by "Kerkoporta" is a myth?!

Let's start a thread about it in the Monastery.

**Advo-san** · 08-05-2005, 08:48

Ok ed

**Advo-san** · 08-05-2005, 13:32

Thread started https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=51945

**bozkirsovalyesi** · 08-05-2005, 14:14

ı am in istanbul to live.

kerkoporta gate... ...... was a myth or fictitious

29-may-1453 ... turks armies to go in city
edirnekapı (adrianopolisgate) destroyed city wall...

city wall to fall cannon fire...
real success.... have turk heavy cannons

(occidental) well bibliography : nicolo barbaro "1453 constantinopol siege daily"

note:
ottomans janisseries (devşirme)
to appear 1363 in troops of guardsmen ottoman padishah...
""half warrior"" minor class
heavy infantry. only arrow-bow-scimitar
never armour-spear. medieval game: janisseryheavy infantry = fictitious

A.D. 1363 : 1.000 men
A.D. 1453 : 3.000 men (medieval end 1453)
A.D. 1520 : 8.000 men
A.D. 1582 : 12.000 men
later janisseries muslim born-not devşirme soldiers.

real ottomans ""warrior"" military class:

major class:

timarli sipahi (timar=fief ... sipahi=cavalry)
heavy cavalry........ 166.000 + cavalry

akinci (turk commandos)
light cavalry........ 40.000 + cavalry

azap
light infantry....... 200.000 men

other minor class:

sea levents .........(sea warriros)
sea azaps .........(marines)
castle azaps ........(castle infantry)
sekban ...............(heavy infantry)
yaya ..................(early infantry)
müsellems ...........(early cavalrys)
yörüks ................(early cavalrys militia)
land levents .........(cavalrys)
delils ..................(light cavalry)
farisan ................(border castle cavalrys)
sarıca .................(light cavalry militia)
beşli ..................(castle infantry)
derbentçi .............(mountain pass castle or border castle guardian)

asess ...................(militia)

serdengeçti or dalkilic ........ (sacrificer soldiers... heavy infantry)