I think the problem with this thread is that, once again, it has returned to using scientific tools to observe a being who exists outside of the measurable universe (the metaphysics getting muddied with science).

I understand that an atheist (of which there are quite a few here) has no other context in which to discuss theology, but it just confuses things for everyone.

People who want to discuss theology should discuss theology. People who want to convince everyone that there is no God should maybe just avoid threads like this. I don't mean that maliciously at all, it's just that I think the original point of the thread may have fallen by the wayside...

This wasn't directed specifically at you, Saturnus...