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Thread: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

  1. #91

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Justiciar
    Should the Sauromatae be a unified power?
    As part of the initial scope I decided that as far as possible we would be representing the original EB factions. That's the approach to the Sauromatae taken in the original EB. It may be changed in the future, but that's how it'll stand for the first release.
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  2. #92
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Since Justiciar bumped the thread to a fourth page (), ER, take a peek at the bottom of page 3.

    Also, here's a family tree for the Seleukids, Pontus, and the Ptolemies:

    Seleukids under Cyzicenus
    -Antiochus (VII) Sidetes & Kleopatra Thera - parents, deceased, age-51 and age-43, respectively
    -Antiochus (IX) Cyzicenus - Faction leader, age-29
    -Laodike (I) - sister of Cyzicenus, age-27
    -Laodike (II) - sister of Cyzicenus, age-24
    -Antiochus (X) Eusebes - son of Cyzicenus, age-6

    Seleukids under Grypus
    -Demetrius (II) Nicator & Kleopatra Thera - parents, deceased, age-40 and age-43, respectively
    -Antiochus (VIII) Grypus - Faction leader, age-32
    -Seleucus (VI) Epiphanes - son of Grypus, age-14
    -Antiochus (XI) Ephiphanes Philadelphus - son of Grypus, age-12
    -Philip (I) Philadelphus - son of Grypus, age-12
    -Demetrius (III) Eucaerus - son of Grypus, age-9
    -Antiochos (XII) Dionysos - son of Grypus, age-5
    -Laodike - daughter of Grypus, age-6

    Ptolemaioi under Ptolemy IX
    -Ptolemy IX Soter & Kleopatra Selene - Faction leader, age-36 and age-28
    -Ptolemy XII - son of Ptolemy IX, age-10
    -Ptolemy of Cyprus - son of Ptolemy IX, age-9
    -Berenike - daughter of Ptolemy IX, age-7

    Ptolemaioi under Ptolemy X
    -Ptolemy VIII & Kleopatra III - parents, father deceased, age-68 and age-52 (
    -Ptolemy X Alexander - Faction Leader, age-33

    Pontos
    Mithridates (V) Euergetes - father, deceased, age-72
    Mithridates (VI) Eupator - faction leader, age-25
    The problem with the Ptolemies, is that they were the sons of the same couple, and Ptolemy IX's family actually stayed behind in Alexandria when he left for Cyprus. Since they eventually went there, I don't think it's really a problem, but his wife married Ptolemy X a little after he'd left. The only way out I can think of, is to consider her an 'absentee' wife, since she remarried a turn or two after our starting point (same year though), and presume that she'd have followed him later if marriage wasn't an option in our 'timeline.'
    Last edited by VandalCarthage; 01-26-2006 at 04:13.
    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  3. #93
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Probably premature, but I just thought I'd throw this little map out there with some suggestions for the period map of India. It would involve one name change, which should be made in any case, and three new provinces (including Sagala, which'll need to be squeezed in anyway) and some basic suggested borders:

    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  4. #94

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Thanks for the family trees, most appreciated . And I agree with you and am going to swap to Baktrian alternate faction. Name changes to settlements are possible (though increase the likelihood of errors if I don't catch all occurrences of them). New provinces are outside the scope of the initial release though, as EB are at the limit anyway, any province added means a province being lost somewhere else and a helluva lot of changes to go along with it. However, somewhere down the line it may be possible.
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  5. #95
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    New provinces are outside the scope of the initial release though, as EB are at the limit anyway, any province added means a province being lost somewhere else and a helluva lot of changes to go along with it. However, somewhere down the line it may be possible.
    I dig it, but changes will eventually have to be made (swapping the Zeugitania province's city from Kart-Hadasht to Utica for example), so I figured I'd drop the info

    Thanks for the family trees, most appreciated . And I agree with you and am going to swap to Baktrian alternate faction. Name changes to settlements are possible (though increase the likelihood of errors if I don't catch all occurrences of them).
    Sounds good Do you think the first release will be able to accomodate extra features; traits, ethnicities, temples, etc? Right now, I'm writing a bunch of ethnicities for both Indo-Greek factions, and trying work out some better temples.
    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  6. #96

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Quote Originally Posted by VandalCarthage
    Do you think the first release will be able to accomodate extra features; traits, ethnicities, temples, etc? Right now, I'm writing a bunch of ethnicities for both Indo-Greek factions, and trying work out some better temples.
    A few EB files are going to have to be added to outside of the provincial campaign. Traits are possible as there are no known hardcoded limits around the edct file, but be aware that whatever additions are made will also potentially appear in the main EB campaign.


    Progress---

    Redistributed province ownership:




    Indo-Greek family tree:



    VC, is the Baktrios surname appropriate or is there something better I can use?
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  7. #97
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    VC, is the Baktrios surname appropriate or is there something better I can use?
    Sigerdos would be better, since it refered specifically to the Indus itself. Since Menander was born in 'Alasanda' near the Indus, and in all likelihood, Strato was born in Sagala, it would probably be the best surname we could use.

    I also don't know what you want to do with the names, but here is a list of my own translations of the Greek names of the Indo-Greek kings (as well as a few unrelated extras) into Kharoshti.

    Agathoklayasa = Agathokles
    Amitasa = Amyntas
    Anantakayasa = Antiochus
    Antialikitasa = Antialkidas
    Antimakhasa = Antimakos
    Apalatasa = Apollodotus
    Apalavinasa = Apollophanes
    Arkhebiyasa = Archebios
    Artemidorasa = Artemidoros
    Dimetria = Demetrius
    Diyanisiyasa = Dionysios
    Diyumetsa = Diomedes
    Epadrasa = Epander
    Eukratitasa = Eukratides
    Heliyakreyasa = Heliokles
    Heramayasa = Hermaios
    Hipustratasa = Hippostratos
    Joilasa = Zoilos
    Lisikasa = Lysias
    Menadrasa = Menander
    Nikiasa = Nicias
    Pakurasa = Pakora
    Pamtalevasa = Pantaleon
    Palasinasa = Polyxenios
    Philasinasa = Philoxenus
    Piukulasa = Peukolaos
    Stratasa = Strato
    Telepasa = Telephus
    Theudorena = Theodorus
    Theuphilasa = Theopholis
    Thrasasa = Thraso
    Last edited by VandalCarthage; 01-30-2006 at 03:40.
    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  8. #98
    Recovering Lurker Member jebes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Are you going to include the Yuezhi? Especially if it is removed from EB and you will have the space for other factions.

  9. #99
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    The preliminary faction lists and starting positions are on the third page
    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  10. #100
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    I think that Numidia should really be added, otherwise North Africa isn't going to get the action it deserves. Making them rebels just doesn't cut it IMO.

    If they are going to be added, they should start out with several diplomats with high skill, Jughurta was a master of bribery and frustrated the Romans to no end. Marius was only sent to Africa because he was considered incorruptable.

  11. #101
    "Audacity, always audacity!" Member Simmons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Yeah Africa is looking pretty bare that could cause gameplay problems.

    “By push of bayonets, no firing till you see the whites of their eyes”
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  12. #102

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Previously on EB - the Unofficial Late Period Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianofsmeg16
    With Macedonia and Hellenes gone are you bringing Numidia back?
    Quote Originally Posted by Epistolary Richard
    Well, it's very tempting. Jugurtha was the big thing in North Africa at 107BC and it would be a shame to lose him. Without Carthage, north africa looks terribly empty. We could have strong rebels there, of course, but that might be missing an opportunity.

    For the intial release, at least, we wouldn't be looking at adding new models or anything like that. _However_, if the open beta has any Numidian regional units that perhaps could be used to create a Numidian faction in place of Carthage, then it's a possibility as that would just be a bit of text editing (well, okay, a lot of text editing) and a bit of graphic work. It would probably be a bit rough and ready, but perhaps better than losing a faction entirely.

    So, not for the initial release, because we'll be trying to get that out as quickly as possible, but maybe as an add-on.
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  13. #103
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Yeah I did read that, but still wanted to express how I feel about it. I haven't even touched the African continent in EB yet, so I don't know if there are any regional units there that could be used for a Numidian faction. I personally think that a Numidea "light" with a rather limited selection of units and not much in the way of scripting is still preferable to no Numidia at all.

  14. #104

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    If you can list any existing troops that can be used or have ideas for the different government levels then do share them, it will always be useful down the road.
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  15. #105

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Progress on family trees - as far as I'm aware aside from the Casse these are the only factions for which we have details so I may as well leave the rest the same.
















    Quite a few of them are rather small - some with only one active family member. However with so few characters the player will be offered a variety of adoptions early on in the game - in the year 107BC several factions were in crisis after all; for example, would the faction of Ptolemy IX have managed to retake Egypt if he were gone. Equally, in other cases such as the Romani - how to portray the relationship between Marius and Longinus within the RTW family tree system? Better perhaps to allow Marius to choose his lieutenants through adoptions at the beginning of the game. Anyway, all suggestions or other information appreciated.
    Last edited by Epistolary Richard; 02-18-2006 at 23:26.
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  16. #106
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Great stuff mate Too bad Grypus can't have his fifth son included.
    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  17. #107

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Yep, too bad blinkin' Marius and Sulla have the same portraits too.
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  18. #108
    I too am a Member Masy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    So hows the mod going? whats the latest word? i'm actually really looking forward to it because i've never been able to play with the post marian units in a campaign (unavoidable crashes etc)
    "Once upon a time, on the internet there was a guy, a very deeply flawed man, they called him Eric Bauman..." -www.ebaumsworldsucks.com

  19. #109

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    It's edging towards an alpha build at present. As there aren't really any testers, I'll be releasing the alpha for those interested in having a crack and then feeding back opinions on the correct level of development of cities and proper composition of garrisons and the traits for the starting characters etc. After a few rounds of that we may well be in a position to release a beta for the beta

    For stability reasons though, I won't put out anything that's not compatible with the forthcoming EB patch.
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  20. #110
    "Audacity, always audacity!" Member Simmons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Good stuff looking forward to giving this a go

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  21. #111
    Member Member Christianus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Hello!
    Just wanted to say this looks great!
    My first post:)
    Last edited by Christianus; 03-08-2006 at 22:51.
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  22. #112

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Hmm, you're naming conventions might need some tweaking. Just in places like 'Soter Ptolemaios' - it should really be 'Ptolemaios Soter'. Also, 'Antiochos Grypus' isn't right - 'Antiochos Grypos' is more consistent (either Latinise everything or don't Latinise anything). Similarly 'Philip Philadelphus' should really be 'Philippos Philadelphos' and so on. 'Menander' should be 'Menandros. You get the idea.

    Otherwise, it's looking very good.

  23. #113
    Ashes to ashes. Funk to funky. Member Angadil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Hi, ER, the project looks very interesting and promising and I hope you find some of the stuff below useful...

    Quote Originally Posted by Epistolary Richard
    Talking of names, I need to start completing the list of faction leaders and other named characters: quibbles, comments and additions to below gratefully received:
    ....
    (SNIP)
    ....
    Sauromatae
    None recorded?
    Well, we do know of a Sarmatian king named Tasios who threatened the Bosporan kingdom in 111-110 BCE thus giving Mithridates Eupator a good excuse to meddle in the affairs of the northern Black Sea and eventually annex the Bosporan Kingdom. Tasios seems a reasonable candidate for faction leader. Other royal Sarmatians known from I BCE were Abeakos, Eunones, Spadinos and Zorsines, though they were not related to Tasios.

    Hmmm... now that I think of it, the Bosporion Tyrranessis province should probably actually go to Pontos (I think it's rebel in the latest map you posted, but hard to say). The annexation apparently happened in summer or autumn of 108 BCE. The cession of rule to the Pontic Kingdom had been agreed by the last Spartocid ruler, Paerisades V, who was killed in 111-111 BCE by a Bosporan Scythian named Saumacus. The elites of the Scythian element of the Bosporan kingdom apparently resented deeply the agreed Pontic takeover and Saumacus led them in an ultimately unsuccessful rebellion against it.

    There seems to be some disagreement about the exact dates of the above events and I've seen them moved a year up or down. Nonetheless, I'd still say that, for 107 BCE, giving Bosporion Tyrranessis to Pontos seems a safe bet.
    Last edited by Angadil; 03-09-2006 at 14:31.
    Europa Barbarorum. Giving history a chance.

  24. #114

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    You have to invert the names - the whole RTW system would pass down the family name "Soter" under your suggested system. I'm sure they'd rather it be inverted than just plain kooky. But you're right about the Menandros. I might go over their greek names at a later date.

  25. #115

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Ok, that's a fair point.

  26. #116
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Hey Richard, for the Indo-Greek family tree - would it be possible to have a deceased brother of Menander, with a deceased son, and finally a single living grandson of the former?
    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  27. #117
    EB Traiter Member Malrubius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    You'd kill them with a script at the start, and Menander's father, as well.

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  28. #118
    EB Pointless Extras Botherer Member VandalCarthage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    I was hoping to do it without having to involve a father, but fortunately it's no longer concern. I do however have some changes I'd like to see go in for Menander's family (after re-reading my Narain):

    -Demetrius = father of Menander, deceased age-61 (only add if Menander and Apollodotus can't be used alone)
    -Menander (I) & Agathokleia = parents, deceased age-65 and age-63, respectively
    -Apollodotus (I) = brother of Menander, deceased age-71
    -Strato = son of Menander, faction leader age-36
    -Nicias = son of Menander, age-29
    -Strato (II) = son of Strato, faction heir, age-17
    -Menander (II) = son of Strato, age-14
    -Apollodotus (II) = son of Apollodotus (I), cousin of Strato, age-43
    -Theophilos = son of Apollodotus (II), age-18
    -Apollophanes = son of Apollodotus (II), age-8
    -Polyxenios = brother of Menander, age-48
    -Zoilos = son of Polyxenios, age-16
    -Dionysius = son of Polyxenios, age-14
    -Epander = brother of Menander, age-43
    -Thraso = son of Epander, age-17
    Pretty substantial changes... but this family tree is my masterpiece

    Also, the map is going to need to shift a little.

    Antialcidas should only have Gandhara, while the Paropamisadai and Arachosia (under Philoxenus age-39) should have small mixed Indian and Greek garissons. Strato's Indo-Greeks should have an army under Polyxenios (with Zoilos) on foot in Northern Arachosia, one under Epander (with Thraso) in Paropamisadai, and another fairly large army under Apollodotus (II) (with Theophilos) should be present in the far West of Gandhara. Strato and his ilk, can just be hanging out in Opiana, Sind.

    As an aside, how would you feel about using Sanskrit/Prakrit/Brahmi for pertinent starting faction family members? And using the Sanskrit "Milindarajya" (Kingdom of Milinda) as a designation for Strato's Kingdom?
    Last edited by VandalCarthage; 04-03-2006 at 01:04.
    "It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive_alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, atc. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment." - Yevgeny Zamyatin

  29. #119

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    Thanks, VC. They'll all make it in there in time.

    In the meantime, here's an alpha version v0.1.

    An alpha version is an internal team release - it is pre-beta version and is released only in order to help development, not to be properly playable.

    It installs as a provincial campaign (it's a bit stripped down to keep the file size down).

    It does overwrite some base files - however you can still play the EB 0.74 version Imperial Campaign. Still I would advise you to use JGSME Mod Enabler.

    The most notable CTD is that you have to reload your game in between campaigns. If you don't, when you activate the script in the second campaign of a load then it will CTD.

    The campaign script also doesn't seem to be always terminating. The campaign script is quite long so be prepared for the game to hang for a while with a full loading bar when starting a new campaign. It's busy placing a load of reform buildings.
    Last edited by Epistolary Richard; 04-10-2006 at 22:59.
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  30. #120
    I too am a Member Masy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

    I just installed the alpha, and it's looking very promising. I started as the romans (very angry citizens), but i would like to see the entire map; to see the faction's layouts and so forth, so how do you remove fog of war? Also, Keep up the great work!
    Last edited by Masy; 04-12-2006 at 22:43.
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