Big Byzantine Infantry

[antisocialmunky]

I'm just curious, does anyone use armies with 6+ Byzantine Infantry? I only use 4 with an occasional 8 if I overbuild.

I'm just curious about how other Byzantine play styles. Since you have the best sword infantry unit in the game, I'm wondering if I could get away with large infantry heavy infantries. Something like having two rows of 4 infantry with a 4-6 assorted cavalry units and missile support.

Since oyu'd outnumber pretty much everyone else, you could effectively attrition them or something. It's kinda interesting and I'm planning to play a game after I get some ideas for that type of army.

[edyzmedieval]

Byzantine Infantry aren't really that powerful.

If they are confronted hard, then they rout easily....

I use 2 units of BI, 3 units of Trebizond Archers, 3 units of Spearmen/Skutatoi, 3 units of Varangians, 2 units of Alan Mercenary Cavalry , 2 units of Proniai Allagion/Kataphraktoi, 1 unit of General, which is Kataphraktoi.

[antisocialmunky]

Yeah, BI do love to mass rout. However, I've found with a competent general of 4 stars or more and localized outnumbering, they are pretty good. The only thing that can outnumber them are spearmen and peasant and they fair well against both of those.

But anyway... how do you get that many Varangians for a standard campaign? I can't afford the time to build them en masse.

[ichi]

Since I play a lot online, where there are penalties for pickibg more than four of any one type of unit, my SP style usually has me with 4 max of any kind. In a pinch, of course, I go with what I got.

ByzInf are strong in early and high, when their 100 man unit size gives them an edge. Since they start with low morale they can be routed en masse (unless they're led by a high command rating gen).

So, yeah, you could build a 16 unit ByzInf stack led by a six star gen, but to me it wouldn't be nearly as interesting as taking a few ByzCav, Trebs, Bulgs, VG, Napthas, Porno Cav, or even a few mercs and beating up the AI with a combination attack.

but that's just me

ichi

[antisocialmunky]

Hmmm, that's interesting, since yes it's more interesting to play with their uber cav, but I don't find it all that fun.

I think it's equally challenging to play the Byz with a heavy Infantry army rather than a more balanced army.

[edyzmedieval]

But anyway... how do you get that many Varangians for a standard campaign? I can't afford the time to build them en masse.

How's about modding MTW so you can have the Early Varangian Guard?!

Royal Palace + Inn = the best HI in the Early period, Early Varangian Guards

[Patron]

I'm playing a late byzantine game at the moment and I'm completely pwning the middle east and russia with the 3 byzantine cavalry types.

Byzantine cavalry are my staple killing source, I'm mass producing these in Rum and Egypt at the moment and giving them an armour bonus of 3. Against infantry on their own, they can expend all of their ammunition then surround them and charge into the demoralised units. Against light cavalry or other archers, their melee skills and armour gives them a strong advantage.

Pronoiai Allagion are exactly the same as feudal knights and I use them as such. They perform frontal charges when my byzantine cavalry have finnished emptying their quivers into the enemy, after they have engaged I send my byzantine cavalry into the flanks as they are usually all over the place trying to find a nice place to shoot from.

Kataphraktoi are obsolete, they have a lower attack than Pronoiai and they are much slower. However my many argumentative prideful jedi princes have units of these, I give them a +3 armour bonus for a total armour of 10 and send these ancient units against enemy heavy cavalry, which usually outclass my feudal knights.

I also have a master gunsmith and master foundry in constantinople and am churning out culverins. This saves a lot of lives when it comes to taking down those huge citadels that dot the late medieval map.

[edyzmedieval]

Kataphraktoi are obsolete, they have a lower attack than Pronoiai and they are much slower. However my many argumentative prideful jedi princes have units of these, I give them a +3 armour bonus for a total armour of 10 and send these ancient units against enemy heavy cavalry, which usually outclass my feudal knights.

.

Kataphraktoi are much more powerful than Pronoiai. I used the Pronoiai against the Mongols, and all of my Pronoiai( 6 units ) routed.

[EatYerGreens]

Exhaustion: I can imagine most troops of that era were totally knackered afterwards, even if they were the winners. Sadly my historical knowledge is too patchy to be able to recall any examples where exhaustion was specifically mentioned in the account. Can you?

Motivation: Aye, that's true. The occasional recklessness of the nobles probably had a lot to do with promises of land ownership after conquest. Manifest displays of brave deeds were de rigeur, in order to get noticed. For the lower orders, there may have been occasions where there was a stark choice between high possibility death in battle or their liege-lord dishing out terrible post-battle retribution for them failing to do their sworn duty, such as having themselves and their family thrown out of tied accommodation... That's feudalism for you.

Pronoiai Allagion are exactly the same as feudal knights and I use them as such. They perform frontal charges when my byzantine cavalry have finnished emptying their quivers into the enemy, after they have engaged I send my byzantine cavalry into the flanks as they are usually all over the place trying to find a nice place to shoot from.

Just curious about this. I'm up to 1180's and am still patiently waiting for construction in Nicaea to reach the point of building +1V PAs but only at armour level +1. I have been able to build silver-armour V0 PAs in Connie for quite some time now - and Kats, of course - but have only built one token PA unit so far. I'd like to keep the capital busy making VG's and the occasional Kat, to top up depleted generals' units.

Do you think the valour bonus outweighs the better armour, to the point that it makes more sense to wait for the Nicaea PAs to be ready and not attempt to stock up on 'interim' units, better armour notwithstanding, while I wait?

Also, would you have any comments on a policy of using PAs instead of Kats, for the desert battles and either/both for the arid and lush regions?

Your previous comment about Kat obsolscence has been noted. I see them described here as Panzer-like but mine mysteriously die a lot. Bizarrest of all, the losses I most frequently get to witness happening seem to involve missile fire and that's in spite of all their supposed armouring... very odd.

I also have a master gunsmith and master foundry in constantinople and am churning out culverins. This saves a lot of lives when it comes to taking down those huge citadels that dot the late medieval map.

{sounds of hasty jotting-pad scribblings}