Some advice

[dgfred]

Need some advice from some of the better players here .

My situation is as the HRE in 1149. I have conquered Denmark, Sweden,
Norway, Pomerania, Prussia, Champaign, Isle de France, Flanders, Silesia and
Toulouse. My $ is not that good and I am not able to build but an
occaisional building here and there. I already have castles in Saxony,
Austria, Swabia, Switzerland and Burgandy so I can build some very tough
units when needed, a couple of more castles are being built in Denmark, etc...

My question is: Since I'm having some money problems would you guys hit
England (still provinces on continent) or Italy (weak units/armies) in Genoa,
Venice, etc to get some extra moolah?

My armies are in good shape with about 5 Princes as leaders and Henry the
Lion with my Emperor in Austria, no problems with winning ONE of the fights.
I also have about 6 assassins, all with at least 3 stars so nobody can
get any emissaries or princesses in my land unless I want them to. My only
problem with smacking England is with their navy, it is about even with mine,
and I hate naval battles and I hate trade loss worse.


What do you guys think? Give me a carrot to go after!

[PittBull260]

if ur army's big enough to still defend the borders, then send some into italy, leave 1 province to the pope tho

[yesdachi]

I would go after the Italians, Venice alone could net you enough $ to finance an army to defeat the English. But be ready for the excom warning either way.

[dgfred]

I would go after the Italians, Venice alone could net you enough $ to finance an army to defeat the English. But be ready for the excom warning either way.

Should I pop one or the other, get my warning, and then really smack the
other? I forgot to mention that Hungary has a decent army, will not give
an alliance and has threatened my border the entire game. I worried about
leaving them any kind of opening to exploit.

[PittBull260]

Should I pop one or the other, get my warning, and then really smack the
other? I forgot to mention that Hungary has a decent army, will not give
an alliance and has threatened my border the entire game. I worried about
leaving them any kind of opening to exploit.

like I said, if ur borders (only IF) are strong enough, attack italy, if not, try to make money by destroying useless buildings, and make farms and stuff, then attack italy :)

[dgfred]

like I said, if ur borders (only IF) are strong enough, attack italy, if not, try to make money by destroying useless buildings, and make farms and stuff, then attack italy :)

Thanks Bull and yesdachi! I'll be playing late into the night .

[yesdachi]

Should I pop one or the other, get my warning, and then really smack the
other? I forgot to mention that Hungary has a decent army, will not give
an alliance and has threatened my border the entire game. I worried about
leaving them any kind of opening to exploit.

Maybe you could take Venice in 2 turns and then smack down Hungary. In my games they always attack me at the least opportune times, almost as treacherous as the Sicilians. I don’t remember their lands being anything too spectacular so maybe I wouldn’t even keep them just razz them for the $ to go after the real target, England.

Of course, if you are going in the direction of Hungary maybe you should just take them out and Poland too. But I don’t think there is as much money or strategic value in those provinces as there is in the English ones.

[dgfred]

Maybe you could take Venice in 2 turns and then smack down Hungary. In my games they always attack me at the least opportune times, almost as treacherous as the Sicilians. I don’t remember their lands being anything too spectacular so maybe I wouldn’t even keep them just razz them for the $ to go after the real target, England.

Of course, if you are going in the direction of Hungary maybe you should just take them out and Poland too. But I don’t think there is as much money or strategic value in those provinces as there is in the English ones.

Good idea but I want to leave something for the Horde to smash! What do
you usually do about that ? Right now the Byzes are in the
lead with me second. I'm playing GA by the way.

[yesdachi]

Good idea but I want to leave something for the Horde to smash! What do
you usually do about that ? Right now the Byzes are in the
lead with me second. I'm playing GA by the way.

Usually by the time I get over there it is later and they aren’t much of a threat or I win before they arrive. But in my recent Spanish game, I mention the details in the “Pics & History of your Empire” thread it didn’t go as well as I planned. I have only played a few years since and nothing major to report but I think my troop production ability is high enough I should be ok. You’ve got about 80 years before you have to worry about it though.

[NodachiSam]

I would go for Italy like the others say. They have good lands and are good for making a trading network too. I wouldn't touch the English if you are using that area that water to get trade income.

If you are feeling really confident you can try smashing a hungarian army up to weaken their lines and possibly get a nice ransom. You'll get an excommunication warning so leave them alone for a while and maybe try to secure a truce. I would only do it if you feel confident about being able to set the hungarians back for a while. The following year invade Italy without getting another warning.

[Martok]

Definitely, definitely, go for Italy.

Whether or not you attack another Catholic faction (like the Huns) first so that you can then take Italy without being ex-commed, is up to you. (You know best as to how many men you can risk losing, after all.) Even if you do ex-commed for invading Italy, however, it's still worth the risk. Here are the reasons why:

1.) As has already been pointed out, the Italian provinces will give you some very nice income, particularly Venice. It will also allow you to build up a trade network in the Mediterranean, which will improve your financial woes tremendously.

2.) Owning Italy will allow you to attack the Pope if need be, thus cancelling any excommunication you may be under.

3.) If I'm not completely mistaken, you'll need to take part of Italy anyway to help fulfill your GA goals.

In the end, taking the Italian provinces will allow you to kill 2-3 birds with 1 stone.

[dgfred]

Well I decided to smack the English first . I had enough troops available
that they retreated from all three provinces with me capturing several princes
in Aquitaine (with a healthy ransom ). I also knocked out about 4 of
their ships. I got no warning so 1 turn later I put the French away by attacking their last province in Brittany. Both Spain and Italy have current
Crusades going to Antioch and Palestine, so I had to wait a bit to keep from
being attacked by them. I now have 1 Crusade built and another just about
built and the year is 1165. I plan on hammering the Italians, and possibly the
Spainiards too in a couple of turns . I'm still not doing too well
financially, but N. Italy and N. Spain sure will help .

[dgfred]

Update: I smashed the Italians in Milan, Genoa and Venice and now my
money woes are much improved. During the assault the English tried to sneak
attack vs Flanders from Wessex across the so-called 'land bridge' .
Although they lost badly, it did give me a suprise. I only found out about
the land bridge on the forum the next day . So I returned the favor
and the English are just about done with. Next I need to pop the Spanish b/c
they have grown quite large and most of their uber generals are near Egypt.
I also want Aragon and Cordova . I have 2 Crusades ready to go and my
ships reach from the Baltic to Antioch, but I don't have any in the Med. so
I have to be carefull of enemy interuptions. I'll let you know what happens.

[Martok]

Glad to hear things have improved for you. Keep us posted!

[dgfred]

Well it is 1183 and I have launched a successful Crusade to Palestine , and have 3 more just about ready to go. The Egyptians are being pressured
by Spain in Egypt, me in Palestine, Byzantines and Turks around Antioch . I see the end in sight for them.

Questions for you all: Do you ever launch Crusades after the point count
is over (1204)? and

Is it better to not launch a crusade than chancing a failure?

More ???s later.

[Knight Templar]

Questions for you all: Do you ever launch Crusades after the point count
is over (1204)?

Yes when I can (after the 1204 my empire is big and other Catholic states and Pope are usually in war with me so I get excom ), it's good way to send 3000-5000 unbusy soldiers to do sth useful and get more of them when passing provinces with +60 zeal

[Don Corleone]

Hi Dgfred,
I'm playing a similar game at the moment, HRE, Early, Hard. I know it's a little late to address your money question, but I wanted to ask you if you had developed a trade network yet? If you're having money problems, chances are you're not getting all the trade revenue you could be. Sweden will give you a lot of cash. Norway, Pomerania, Prussia will give decent amounts. Even Saxony & Friesland offer a decent amount. The problem with trade is 1) it's expensive and 2) anybody you're warring with won't trade with you. So, hold off on attacking ALL of your neighbors... leave some on neutral terms so that they'll buy your trade goods. As that money starts flowing in, use it finance a ship network to far away shores. THEN go after your neighbors, since now you have trade partners a fair distance away.

As far as crusades go, I always wait until I have a ship lane all the way to the target province. A failed crusade is difficult for the most beloved of rulers, and downright disastrous for a new one (and they're actually the best ones to commission them..... they're the ones that need the influence boost). Don't be in too big a rush... remember if you don't hold the province at the expiration date, you don't get the crusade points. Don't be too slow either, as the Pope won't commission multiple crusades to the same province (though the AI has an attitude to crusades that seems downright incompetent). I generally build an army large enough to take & hold the province I want indefinitely, then put that army into the crusade once I declare it. Too many times the HRE gets crummy troops in their crusades, so I count on getting no troop support from the crusade itself, then at best I'm pleasantly surprised.

I have the same problem with Hungary (I think the AI for Hungary is pre-programmed to nip at Austria & Bohemia). If you go and take any provinces from the Hungarians, the other European powers, especially France & Poland, get REALLY nervous. One way to have the best of both worlds.... stop the Hun raids yet keep your other neighbors happy is to raid, not conquer. Every 15 or 20 years, I launch an invasion into Hungary & Croatia. I burn everything to the ground, then leave. It seems to me that it takes a few years of holding a province before your neighbors start getting nervous, so don't waste a lot of time. Bring some seige weapons, knock the walls down, kill everyone inside, burn the improvements to the ground, then withdraw. This keeps the Huns from getting too powerful on their western side... encouraging them to push against the Byz or the Rebels in Russia. I've never seen the Poles & the Huns fight, which is odd.

Good hunting!

[dgfred]

Thanks Don for the advice. I now have my trade/ships all the way to
Antioch so all is good with the economy. Hungary, and to a lesser extent
Poland, has been a major worry for me the entire game with large army right
on my border . I might try your 'raid theory' just to knock them
back a notch . Since the Byzs are now in second I like the idea of
Hungary going against them instead of towards me. I have also had major
problems with no troops being added to my Crusades in previous games while
going through other faction's provinces-- so now I just hit the target on the
initial turn, at least you know exactly what you are going to have for the
Crusade.