MTW is hardcoded to give the Generals giant-flying-rock-magnet armor
MTW is hardcoded to give the Generals giant-flying-rock-magnet armor
Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.
"Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009
They're not unkillable. I actually like to focus on the general. Usually I bait him into a trap by exposing a 'weakness' in the middle of my line. Usually, the enemy general is a cavalry unit that comes in and I close off his escape route. Killing or capturing the general is awesome, the enemy just will not stand against you. IME, it's the only way to get knights to rout.
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
I voted killing the general, because it's the only constant tactic that I have in battles. If you pwn the general, you pwn the battle 90% of the time.
"Non nobis Domine non nobis, sed Nomini tuo da gloriam"
(Not to n00bs, o Lord, not to n00bs, but to your Name give glory)
Those are some good strategies listed which of course have different usefulness in different situations... Feints and hit and run are great ways to draw your enemy from a favorable position as the AI doesn't have the nerve to have his men hold. I agree with several of the people who've responded that head on charges are to be avoided and I add even with superior forces as a decent general knows how to use tactics to beat back an oncoming horde.
Another thing is that when you divide your forces and come towards both flanks of the enemy army (assuming they're on defensive) the AI starts to freak and doesn't know how to respond properly. I usually have the heavily armed infantry leading a forward advancing wing and put my cavalry on the other wing and as the infantry approaches the enemy focuses on them and may even charge. This of course allows me to charge into their rear with my cavalry and instant rout.
Grey Fox.... that's a great idea... Cavalry when used correctly are devastating, there is a very good reason that the Mongols beat nearly anything and everything in their path.
"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
-- Genghis Khan
I have evolved my own tactic. Basically it's pin and flank minus the flank.
My typical army consists of three units of spearmen, a couple decent infantry, a few archer units, and two heavy cavalry. Sometimes I also have some horse archers.
Now, when I have to attack an army, I'll spend a few minutes getting them into formation with the three units of spearmen deployed about 2-3 ranks deep along the front line, and archers either in front or behind. My heavy infantry is usually deployed about 5 metres behind my spears, holding position. My cavalry will be deployed a fair distance behind them.
Anyway, I will march in formation until I'm just barely in archer range of them. Then I open fire with my archers, usually by this time the enemy will be marching towards me. Once the enemy begins to charge, my archers will cease fire, then my spears will hold position while the enemy charges into them.
My spears should manage to hold their ground, and the enemy will get worn down after a few minutes and waver. Any attempt to flank my troops will be intercepted by my infantry. After a few units have begun to retreat, I'll send in my heavy cavalry. My spearmen will very rarely waver, and in formation can hold off as many troops as the enemy throws at them. They do tend to suffer when charged by cavalry, though. Oh, and if I bring horse archers along, I use them to lure a particularly powerful unit away from the group. Alone, they can't destroy the unit, but after the main battle is over I can send reinforcements.
This tactic is definitely the one I use the most. It may be complicated to describe, but to me it's second nature and works very well. Still, one day I may get the crap beaten out of me and need to change tactics.![]()
Programmer for Pirates Of Ashlen, a 2D RPG project.
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I forgot... added bonus to killing the general... Many times, this means you've killed the monarch or an heir. I find this to be incredibly useful when crusading. If you keep killing the Sultan/heirs, which are usually the only Ghulam cavalry the Turks or Egyptians field, you can start a rebellion. I've ended more than one faction, just by taking Palestine and aiming for the enemy general when the Egyptians or the Turks sought to drive me back out. Once they go rebel, they're much, much less likely to attack, giving you a bit of breathing room for your next crusade, Tripoli!
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
What's great about enemy generals as well is that they're usually extremely ballsy and prideful and riding with their best troops which lead him to charge out whereas a smart general would hold back and let his troops do the body of the fighting.
Sometimes after setting a good attack position of spears/archers and armor killing infantry I'll use one light cavalry just for the purpose of harassing an enemy general to draw them into my death trap and then have everyone throw everything at him.
"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
-- Genghis Khan
Yea, I'm not a big fan of artillery on the battlefield, but one of the greatest MTW moments I have witnessed was when, because of the short range, my catapault shot very high into the air, and the ball came nearly straight down, and it landed dead smack on a poor enemy soldier. When I saw big ball flattening that little dude I was lmao.
Yeah, I like artillery too. Unfortunately I find it too much of a hassle to build them and bring them along when I'm in desparate need of other troops. Right now, my entire Byzantine Army (5-6 stacks) only has one or two catapults.
Programmer for Pirates Of Ashlen, a 2D RPG project.
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I like the Arty too and try to have a few with my attacking armies, they seem
to help with the castle assaults. But there is the problem of setting
them up before battles so they will be able to hit anything if you are the
attacker. Only occaisionally can I get them into a excellent
position.
PB-PL Commander/CC2 Commander/MTW Commander
Yeah, dgfred I have the same feelings and experience about castle sieges and how ineffective siege machines seem as you find there are layers to castle defenses and you have to position them close enough so that they can batter inner gates as well as the outer gates.
This has pretty much become my experience in sieges, position my machines at a distance close enough to hit the inner gate and put a unit of armored men around the siege guys to take some heat from the arrow towers. They eventually open the gate and I target the inner gate, it gets half destroyed before my artillery runs out of ammo or is too battered to continue then I sacrifice half a unit of guys to open the gate under boiling oil and archer attacks.
"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
-- Genghis Khan
I used to have that same problem, to the point that I'd expect to need three cats to pull off a siege. One for the main gate, one for the inner gate and one to hit the arrow tower most threatening to the cat hitting the inner gate. Between the two of them there's enough ammo to finish whichever target requires most pounding to finish off.
After a while, I sussed out that you can ignore the gate openings completely, if you just kock a blooming great hole in the wall/stockade for each enclosed area, then send troops in to hit whatever is in there. Don't even attempt to go through the gates at all.
Not particularly realistic, but it works...
Examples
Wooden fort - no siege kit required. Stockade demolition in under 5 mins using fire arrows, slightly longer if you ask any spear/axe/sword unit, or even peasants (!!) to 'attack' the stockade. Again, avoid any area near enough to the gate for boiling oil.
Keep - 1 catapult. Main gate at 6 o'clock, place cat at 9 or 3 o'clock, where you can see both the wooden and stone walls and keep far enough back to be safe from arrow towers. Fire-arrow the wooden stockade and cat the stone wall. Fight each enclosure separately. Once one area is beaten, don't forget to pull your troops out asap as arrow fire continues until the end of the battle.
Castle - at least two cats, preferably 3. Place all three on one side of the castle and have one smash the nearest arrow tower whilst the other two hit the same patch of wall. Once broken, switch targeting to the wall around the rear enclosure.
I've not gone up against Citadel of Fortress yet, so that's the limit of my advice.
In setup, you can move your cats around as much as you like until ready to start. It's tricky to get them a position where both enclosure walls AND an arrow tower are in range but 3 cats lets you get them a wall and an arrow tower each and you can switch as necessary. Icon showing Arrow tower out of range is good, as it might mean they can't hit you but you can still hit a wall section, unhindered, from that spot.
Find a spot where every bit of castle is out of range, then edge forward in small increments until a key target is just in range. You should suffer fewer crew losses that way.
EDIT: Typos and minor additions.
Last edited by EatYerGreens; 08-14-2005 at 00:41.
EYG
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From my experience, you need at least two catapults to sufficiently destroy a small castle with stone walls. Though it is possible to just blast a hole in a wall and go from there, expect to take many casualties. Ideally, you should destroy as many towers as you can, and blast several holes in the walls before sending your cheap units in.
Sieges have so much potential to be very strategic battles. I would have appreciated the ability to capture parts of a castle, and fight on the walls. But that was done in RTW, so I guess I shouldn't be complaining.![]()
Does anyone know what effect destroying a keep has? I used to always go for the keep, thinking it might weaken the defences somehow...
Programmer for Pirates Of Ashlen, a 2D RPG project.
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Well, it removes a very stiff arrow tower from the equation, but otherwise it has no effect. Mind you, if you clear a courtyard of enemy troops, the towers around it stop firing.Originally Posted by Babij
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