Comments on BI formations

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 08-07-2005, 03:19

The Hedgehog (won't bother trying to spell it)
It doesn't seem overly useful in a group, just as individual and spread out units. Cav is stopped by it, though they do push it back. I don't see a overly pressing need to deploy it, and it is only saved by the fact that units can break out of the formation if they need to roll.

The Shieldwall
It looks sweet, but what is its main purpose? Defense, presumably, but I don't have a good idea on how it holds up in hand-to-hand. It certainly isn't good on the offensive. (Oop!

)

Anyone have some more information or opinions on these? I certainly like the Shieldwall.

**sunsmountain** · 08-07-2005, 03:27

I find both nice & useful. Comparing them to the formations in the original game, they're better than:

Warcry. I often forget about it and havent noticed any real difference between using it VS not-using it.

Wedge. Since battle are so fast and mostly about morale, you dont need wedge. Besides +3 -3 doesnt matter a lot on an attack/defense of ATT 10 DEF 20, now does it?

I've actually used Testudo in combination with sapping points, and also within cities, marching like a turtle to the central plaza... at max speed.

**sapi** · 08-07-2005, 05:26

Historically coulndn't some cultures advance in a shieldwall?

**Simetrical** · 08-07-2005, 05:31

Of course they could. All hoplites advanced and fought in a shield wall (well, at least the traditional sort; Iphicratean hoplites fought in more of a wall of spears, apparently). They wielded their spears overhand so that they could attack effectively with shields overlapping.

-Simetrical

**Marquis of Roland** · 08-07-2005, 23:45

That hedgehog formation sucks.

It breaks the strength of numbers of the unit because now it has to defend all sides, meaning anywhere you attack you're only facing a fraction of the unit's men. Once the side you're attacking crumbles, its a massacre since the rest of the unit has its backs turned. Any decent cav charge will defeat it. Does anyone see a good use for it?

**professorspatula** · 08-07-2005, 23:49

Ill-fated last stand?

**Uesugi Kenshin** · 08-08-2005, 03:05

When you are heavily outnumbered the hedgehog formation may have some use, though I haven't played the demo to try it out so I can't really say at the moment.

**Enjoi_BlackHawk** · 08-08-2005, 05:41

hm dont know why i was fooling around in the tutorial and decided to use the shield wall to defend the bridge, (makes since right?) my men did good on the initial charge, but after that charge, they all turned around, leaving only 4 men engaging the enemies, probably some sorta bug though, i havent tried the hedgehog formation, i can see it more like a flank defense than anything, it seriously sucks though on the battle of badon hill, stupid general always dies right when i get there.

**Marquis of Roland** · 08-08-2005, 10:45

Download the demo and charge at it with some cav, uesugi. You'll see, its total crap, trust me.

**TB666** · 08-08-2005, 11:31

Originally Posted by Marquis of Roland

Download the demo and charge at it with some cav, uesugi. You'll see, its total crap, trust me.

You don't charge it with schiltron(well you can't do it even if you wanted to)
You stand still and wait for them to hit you and since there is no flank the cavarly will take casualties where ever they attack.
Of course since the demo is pretty old, it haven't been tweaked so that it can't actually stop cavalry but CA have said that it has been tweak now.