Countdown to Open Beta - Koinon Hellenon

**Idomeneas** · 08-11-2005, 23:21

Originally Posted by khelvan

Stratigos, I guess you didn't read the part of my post that said not to take it personally. That should clue you in that my statement was not directed at you, when I make generalizations. I told you that it isn't anything personal, that we are simply no longer discussing the Greek transliteration. At some later date we may revisit this.

Again, don't take it personally. Relax. There is no need to play the martyr here, nor to write pages worth of defense of yourself. You're not under attack. If you want to respond to me, try to keep it to two paragraphs, I find concise discussions are much easier to read.

Cheers!

Edit: Just so we are clear, I was trying to indicate to you in my post why we weren't going to discuss things anymore. I was not making a statement that includes you in it. Unlike the Germanic and other languages, our Greek has been hounded over and over for months. So yes, we're going to react differently, and we have decided that it practically takes more time to discuss the Greek than it does to make the mod, and it just isn't something we want to do at this time.

Khelvan it would be better if you were avoiding generalizations in general. You say you didnt aimed at Stratigo, then who you were aiming? its not that we are too many Greeks around...

I want you to understand something and all the fellow members here. There is a basic reason why this whole fuzz is happening about greek or more corectly Ελληνικά. Unlike protogermanic or gaulish languages and dialects wich are dead or altered beyond recognision, Greek are still a living language spoken by a quite large number of people.

As a living language offcourse it evolved and enriched. Nobody can claim that we still speak without the slightest difference from Plato's age. But the basic grammar rules and the sound of letters (the ones that prevailed since in archaic age there where many alternatives) remained the same as skeleton of the language. As i posted before we have certain language speciments that froze in time like hymns. Anyway as i tried to say many times ancient greek exist inside the modern greek, but this can be seen only by somebody who has actual contact with the language and not just through books. Its not about agendas or nationalistic evil plans, its about the plain truth.

What i and every other Greek, i like to believe, try to do here is to really help you since your banner is accuracy. I know myself to fix those names when EB is out but i think is important to focus your attention on some minor things that its logical to be left out since there is no greek native or fluently speaking linguist among you, so all the fans can have a more accurate product. What troubles me is your stance as EB. Instead of saying ''well if those Greeks are tearing their clothes and insist so much maybe we should check on this by asking more opinions'' you say ''The scholar community decided that Greeks including the scholars pronounce wrong their mother tongue cause of alterations through time.'' When you are kindly asked to provide some evidences apart the vague ''scholars community'' arguement you say basically that you are bored to spend time over this issue. You say that you have discused it again. Well from what i can remember the last time this issue was brought on when there were spoted many grammar mistakes in the names of hellenistic units. While Teleklos admited that he didnt yet had the time to look over those stuff you and other members that didnt had any knowledge of greek started speaking about ''dialects'' ''ancient greek not like the modern'' and the whole thing ended in a mess. Im happy to see the names corected after Teleklos completed his work. What annoyed me that time was that you could say ''Hey we havent looked over that yet'' instead of raising a wall saying inaccurate things. The same thing annoyes me now.

Stratigos is basically right about transliteration in general non greek users will have a very distort view of Greek pronounciation. In vanilla RTW the unit Hoplite when selected instead of hopleetes cry ''hoplaits''. That is a proof of transliteration traps for english speakers. Instead of brushing him away better consider what he says.

Anyway i think the most proper person for this conversation would be Teleklos since he is the Greek expert and apart those minor things he is doing a fine job. The only reason i quote you is that you answered instead of him as his representator only without any expertise on the subject. I understand you try to defend EB. But have in mind that me and other greeks posting here (imo offcourse) dont try to offend you, dont question your studies, certainly dont have secret agendas or any nationalistic plans. Only try help you do a better mod. I would appreciate if i wasnt treated as a 13 year old fanatic trying to pass modern street slang as the language of Socrates. This is not the case here.

To end this, if you have an undisputted source please provide it so i can be enlighted. If not please do the effort considering the observations of greek fans some more. There is not point constantly creating taboo subjects. Taboo progress, taboo units, taboo cultures, taboo greek, what next? Maybe you should define what is allowed to be discussed?

I would be glad to see your thoughts on what i posted but i ll be unable to post soon cause tommorow i go to Crete for holidays.

Sorry for my bad english extending in more than two paragraphs

**Narayanese** · 08-11-2005, 23:35

There's a spelling mistake in the slingers' desrciption, and the descriptions doesn't make it clear what difference it is between a standard Thureophoroi javelin and a Thorakitai one.

Judging from the previews, the EB team doing a really great job

Sphendonetai:
Historically, slingers were uses pretty well.

Thorakitai:
They are armored in mail and carry heavy javelins instead of the lighter javelins carried by the Theurophoroi.

Thureophoroi:
They are well armed /---/ heavy javelins, and a stout spear.

**O_Stratigos** · 08-12-2005, 08:23

Actually I did read the part that said not to take it personally khelvan, but I didn’t really have much choice after this:

If you are in this group, then it is applicable to you. If you are not, you can thank a general group of "modern Greeks" who have, on multiple occasions, made the same argument over and over."

Wouldn’t you have taken it personally?

I assure you that I am not "playing the martyr" here, not exactly my style you know.. just simply asking why are my questions treated so differently, and I wasn’t trying to defend myself because I thought I was under attack per se, but I genuinely couldn’t understand what -if anything- was going on when I am quoted on something, and then the reply has almost nothing to do with the quote and also (if and when) answers are given, are peppered with silly remarks.
About been concise, well.. I think that "a concise Greek" is probably an oxymoron..

Finally, I would like to leave you with these from Idomeneas

What i and every other Greek, i like to believe, try to do here is to really help you since your banner is accuracy - But have in mind that me and other greeks posting here (imo offcourse) dont try to offend you, dont question your studies, certainly dont have secret agendas or any nationalistic plans. Only try help you do a better mod.

trusting that no one thinks that "to really help you since your banner is accuracy" and "only try help you do a better mod" is implying that you can't do it without help, and hoping that you and the rest of the EB team can see the sincerity in it all.

Αμην, Aμην λεγω υμιν.

O_Stratigos

**khelvan** · 08-12-2005, 09:33

"You," in English, can mean many things, both a direct pronoun and a general one.

To be brief, all I was trying to say is that you, personally, were not the subject of Teleklos' message, and that we are doing our best to make a great mod. But discussions about the ancient Greek have gone nowhere in the past, and are taking too much time and energy away from our work, so they're set aside until later.