A ban on Cut & Paste Odesseys?

[Big_John]

being able to actually articulate a position rather than simply regurgitating some internet editorial is a virtue for which we should all strive. but it shouldn't be necessary to make a post.

tbh, i usually just ignore that boring drivel.

it would be rather funny, though, to see someone run off a string of responses in a debat-ish backroom thread that consisted entirely of quoted text from some website.

[King of Atlantis]

Though i dont like the article post, i see nothing wrong with them. I usually just wait until the discussion becomes clear and then post according to the discussion.

[Papewaio]

As the initial article to launch a discussion it can be useful.

Maybe we should trial a week or backroom formats based on posters like Don Corleone-san. See if we can raise the bar in the debate.

Cut'n'paste based on the 80/20 rule where only 20 percent of something contains 80% of the goods. So have the main points... or even convert the article into its top 3 points and post the link.

If the style change doesn't work then we can always go back or try another form.

[Byzantine Prince]

@Tosa

Is it illigal if we site the source of the C&Ped article on the quote=[blank] part? Or should we stop C&Ping all together. I'm a little confused as to what is acceptable.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Ive never seen such a bunch of cry babies in my life. You dont like it dont read it nervermind respond to it.

Though i dont like the article post, i see nothing wrong with them. I usually just wait until the discussion becomes clear and then post according to the discussion.

This is what I do . Yes I sometimes add a little snip at the end but I want to see what others think before I spill my guts.

When the thread just has a cut and past article (posted by whoever) and nothing said by the poster it usually isn't an interesting subject anyway. I can't see banning it as a good idea.

You cant say that about my threads. I look for stories or articles I think will cause a good debate and post them. Again if you dont like just ignore it.

I have no problem with Gawain posting threads - I have a problem with the debateless single sentence underneath a C&P odessey. I would prefer you to actually engage in the debate you have congratulated yourself for being so good at. Most of the time you use someone elses opinion as a way of not presenting for yourself. You are not the only culprit. JAG seems to be doing this increasingly, and I also dislike those threads - but at least the pointless original sentence is "this is interesting" rather than "this prooves that all libarals (sic) are wrong" or some such drivel.

This is total bullocks. Yes Jag and I do have a habit of starting debates this way but I think there are few hear who make their own positions more clearly than either of us. You all know where we stand. I dont continue to cut and past after the opening unless Im trying to show where I got something. Damn you guys have me sticking up for Jag now . Whats the org coming to.

As the initial article to launch a discussion it can be useful.

Maybe we should trial a week or backroom formats based on posters like Don Corleone-san. See if we can raise the bar in the debate.

Human cloning is against the law Do we want only one style of posting here. Your advocating boredom.

[Don Corleone]

Hey, who's boring?

Actually, as I can be something of a hothead, I can guarantee nobody wants to use me as the rolemodel for how to post in the backroom.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Hey, who's boring?

Certainly not you . Bt 200 of you might Be. It reminds me of an episode of All in the family I just watched. Arhie thinks another black family is moving in necxt door amd Michael says to him that diversty is goo in the neighborhood. Arhie says one black family is a novelty but two black familes are a ghetto. I always though about using his name and posting like he would. Man that would be a scream .

[Goofball]

Can we institute some kind of forum rule on tedious c&p threads. There does seem to be a few prime culprits. And the content is always along the same monotonous track.

I have to tell you Idaho, though I quite often agree with you I think you are way off base with this idea.

If you don't like cut and pastes, don't read them and don't reply to them. Just like in the real world, it's your responsibility to sift through what you see in the Backroom, then decide what to keep and what to discard.

[Idaho]

Goofball, Gawain - the 'if you don't like it then ignore it' arguement doesn't wash here. It's like me complaining about litter, or anti-social behaviour and being told to simply look the other way.

We all have a responsibility to maintain the level of debate on this forum, to promote a good standard all round. Yeah Gawain's views p*ss me off - but I will just have to deal with that - however cluttering up the board with endless C&Ps means that this forum is turning into a reactionary essay list. If I wanted to see a page filled with such dirge I would hold my nose and go and find www.lickmystarsandstripesgunbutt.com

Link to such sites to provide a source - fine

Post the occassional article from such site - if pertinent and interesting - fine

Refer to such sites - fine

However don't fill the board with endless C&Ps - it's not a big point. If you really have something to say about something then say it yourself. Don't bore me articles I don't want to read by people who I can't debate with.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Link to such sites to provide a source - fine

I hate when people do that. I t makes it harder to refference and reply. In many cases I do what others say about cut and paste and just dont bother even reading it and wait for people to start replying. In the opening of the thread I would much rather see the entire article. Different strokes for different folks.

We all have a responsibility to maintain the level of debate on this forum,

And now you are the one to decide these standards?

Goofball, Gawain - the 'if you don't like it then ignore it' arguement doesn't wash here. It's like me complaining about litter, or anti-social behaviour and being told to simply look the other way.

One mans litter is another mans gold.

however cluttering up the board with endless C&Ps means that this forum is turning into a reactionary essay list. If I wanted to see a page filled with such dirge I would hold my nose and go and find www.lickmystarsandstripesgunbutt.com

I dont clutter up the board with endless cut and pastes. Mostly I ony use them to open a thread. Lets talk reaility here.

Don't bore me articles I don't want to read by people who I can't debate with.

You see in the end its all about Idaho

[Redleg]

You see in the end its all about Idaho

Sure it is - didn't you notice it in his very first post.

...... I have no interest in reading a bunch of opinion articles cut from sources I wouldn't touch with a bargepole........

Cut and paste is just fine as long as it does not violate any copyright laws.

I would like to see more detailed thoughts of individuals after the initial article. And like someone mentioned some articles come from sites where other's subscribe to - and other do not. So the only way to have others see the article is to actually cut and paste it.

The only valid concern about cut and paste - is are we in our ignorance violating any copy right laws that will get the .Org in trouble with whatever regulatory outfit decides to eventual police the internet for such violations.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'll just copy this from another post of mine since it belongs here:

About those 'cut and paste odyssey's': if you are trying to make a point, then make it and just add a link. If you've got an interesting article to share that you want to discuss, by all means share it.

My two cents.

[Navaros]

i 100% concur with original poster

copy and pasting has been going on forever, and it needs to stop

the solutions are:

1. ban copy and pasting articles outright

or

2. make sure the original poster matches the amount of characters he has pasted, letter for letter, via the addition of his own words on the same subject. if his own words have less characters than the characters in the article, then the thread gets locked instantly.

making it so it is just allowed for copying and pasting links is not an adequate solution. that does not address the core issue of this problem: that patrons are not discussing each other's own ideas

[Big_John]

that does not address the core issue of this problem: that patrons are not discussing each other's own ideas

of course, if that were a strict criterion, there would be a new thread in the backroom about once every 5 months or so...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

that does not address the core issue of this problem: that patrons are not discussing each other's own ideas

Yeah I dont Have any of my own. Did you ever think that the article may represent the views poster or that he may like to hear what others think of it?

2. make sure the original poster matches the amount of characters he has pasted, letter for letter, via the addition of his own words on the same subject. if his own words have less characters than the characters in the article, then the thread gets locked instantly.

So you want to make it twice as tedious to read and have them repeat what the original article said in different words. That ludicrous. I would also like to point out that in most cases I post for more words of my own than I do from cutting and pasting. In fact its probably about 100 to 1 ratio.

[King of Atlantis]

guys honestly, Gwain uses the most copy and pasting and he offeres the MOST views. Anybody saying gawain(and other cronic pasters ) dont post opinions are dead wrong.

[Simetrical]

@Tosa

Is it illigal if we site the source of the C&Ped article on the quote=[blank] part? Or should we stop C&Ping all together. I'm a little confused as to what is acceptable.

Illegal, yes. You're still infringing on the copyright holder's exclusive commercial right to reproduce and distribute his work, or to authorize such reproduction and distribution. I can provide legal sources for that if you'd like. Whether it's acceptable here, that I can't say.

-Simetrical

[Divinus Arma]

Please. leave it the way it is.

I think this is a terrific way to stimulate debate and discuss the issues of the day.

Quote the article, as is done now and cut & paste. This gives credit to the author where due, and allows us all to be on the same page.

Leave as is with no changes. Just ensure that the link is posted as well.


Regards

[GodsPetMonkey]

I read a few other forum, mainly paradox forum.

It's quite funny that when I read something there from let's say a US conservative, I usually find it here again copy paste, same source, a few days later.

It has become an epidemic really, I can't think of any OT forum I have been to recently that has not got this type of thread all over the place... in fact, extensive research has led me to discover a new species of netizen: the Luremaster (aka. Copy & Paste Troll).
It's quite a simple, and rather effective, strategy really. I'll provide an example using a conservative poster (as the are far more prevalent, and possibly pioneered the tactic), though it's easily applied to liberal and other luremasters, just change the sources as appropriate.
Also note that I italicise the titles of the luremasters to keep them distinctive from conservative and liberal posters who are not baiting.

First of all, our conservative poster finds a suitable source of editorials to fuel their passion for internet arson; townhall.com is incredibly popular, just about every article I see used in this manner can be found on here. The conservative then picks a group that he/she wants to inflame (liberals, communists, anarchists, socialists, pro-abortion, pro-immigration, anti-gun, anti-war, anti-nuclear, anti-capitalism, pro-gay-marriage, supporters of particular famous politicians/political parties, you get the idea) and look for a suitably inflammatory editorial. The trick is to find one with as little truth as possible, nothing fuels the fire like lies, rumours and half-truths.
Then start a new thread with a title that will attract your target audience, but not inflammatory enough to turn any one off, paste the article, then add a one liner which is a perfect catalyst for the mayhem ahead (a popular choice is "I knew [target group] are a bunch of [insert derogatory term here]", which can be easily adapted, but remains effective in delivering the final insult).

The flame war then begins, for the first 10 or so replies, the article provides enough fuel that no extra needs to be added, but the targets will start to loss interest after a short while, so the conservative may give it a little kick, either by backing it up with a similar themed editorial, or poking a few of the more sensitive posters in the thread... then the real fun starts, and the thread soon explodes. The other conservatives soon try to rush to their embattled friend's defence, and before you know it, the thread explodes out to 5, 10 even 15 pages of constant flame, the conservative is strangely absent for much of this (only giving the thread a quick kick when it slows down), as the other conservatives have taken the extreme position (which they would have been unlikely to take otherwise) in order to help defend their comrade in politics.

And there you have it, the luremaster at work... other forum patrons soon see how effective they are, and slowly they become luremasters as well (the name has a double meaning!).

Hmmm, I should probably submit that to flamewarriors...

[TosaInu]

Yes GodsPetMonkey: some guys like to get a rise out of other people. And they do it while hiding in the shadows, covered by an alter ego account, or by just being dishonest about their own play.

The sad thing is that those arsonist are not only rewarded by flames, but also enjoy sympathy and their saint alter egos also get respect. Unlike real man/woman who do good and bad things and receive feedback, these trolls get away with everything.

[Demon of Light]

Yes GodsPetMonkey: some guys like to get a rise out of other people. And they do it while hiding in the shadows, covered by an alter ego account, or by just being dishonest about their own play.

The sad thing is that those arsonist are not only rewarded by flames, but also enjoy sympathy and their saint alter egos also get respect. Unlike real man/woman who do good and bad things and receive feedback, these trolls get away with everything.

I can't speak for anyone except myself (though I hope that most people agree with me) BUT I don't find anything inherently inflammatory in what Gawain does. If he finds something on the internet that he wants to share, so be it. His intent is to inspire intelligent, rational debate. Anyone saying otherwise, even if it is based on the end result of a specific thread that went to hell, is guilty of casting aspersions on Gawain's character and motives. What bothers me about this is that alot of people seem use as their primary motivation for wishing to ban such threads this image of the knuckle-dragging ideologue out to club people to death (or agreement) with insidious articles culled from the nether-reaches of the dark and dastardly recesses of Ann Coulter's soul. If one were to respond intelligently to these articles, that might set the tone of discussion. We apply this logic already to normal posts. I don't see a reason we cannot do so here.

Also: The last two posts deal with a sort of person that I have no doubt exists. This person is spoken of in general terms. It is my hope (and insofar as I have faith in the posters, my assumption) that there aren't any subtle accusations being made. Correct?

[Ghost of Rom]

Hmmm...thought liberals were big on free speech and such...

[TosaInu]

Gawain..

..It is my hope (and insofar as I have faith in the posters, my assumption) that there aren't any subtle accusations being made. Correct?

Adding 1 and 2 in your post, no I don't accuse Gawain. I do know though that such people exist. I will celebrate the day they discover how fun it is to play with Barbie & Ken and devote the rest of their life to groom her hair.

[Adrian II]

I do know though that such people exist.

I don't get it either, TosaInu. Are some people using multiple accounts in order to troll the .org and is this your way of saying that you are on to them? If so, I hope you will be successful.

[Proletariat]

Come to think of it... Has anyone ever seen TosaInu and Gawain at the same time?

Hm.

[Productivity]

No I'm Spartacus?

[Adrian II]

Come to think of it... Has anyone ever seen TosaInu and Gawain at the same time?

Hm.

How about you and Byzantine Prince? Hm?

[Kagemusha]

How about you and Byzantine Prince? Hm?

Or you and Pindar,Adrian II.Hm?

[Adrian II]

Or you and Pindar,Adrian II.Hm?

[Kagemusha]

I knew it! But seriosly i think its bit scitshofrenic if some patrons are using multiple accounts.