BI Demo Comments

[SpencerH]

The BI demo is available on this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=51712 (although it may take some while to download as the servers become busy). I thought it might be a good idea to start a seperate thread with comments on the demo since they seem to be cropping up on seperate threads.

I've only played Chalons so far and retired once my general got killed (course I havent played in months).

I had no problem starting the demo from King Ragnar nor have I had a CTD or any other glitches. Technically it worked as well as 1.2.

Part of the reason I lost was that I had problems controling the HA and light cav who tended to have 'minds of their own' i.e. giving new orders to units took a long time to have an effect or the ordered changes never happened at all. Of course, in the few seconds while you're trying to re-direct your 4 units of light cav who're chasing after 1 unit of enemy HA the battle is lost. So one thing for sure, the demo game speed is not slowed down. Battles are still way too quick even with pausing. I'm unsure whether the problems with my HA were caused by the 'parthian shot bug'.

Its possible though that my control problems were due to being out of practice.

[The_Mark]

Well, the AI seems now able to do coordinated charges against player's battleline (though the AI troops that were part of the frontal charge still routed on contact). AI should utilize their precursor javelins, as they currently don't.

On technical side, I'm getting the strobe effect in night battles described earlier.

[barocca]

nope

i saw that too

cav tend to keep going, or go after a different unit,

getting them back under control can take some doing,
(kinda historicaly accurate actually)
try clicking them onto the ground THEN get them to attack another unit

why should they go attack that unrouted unit when they have easy pickings right here, eh?
or maybe they just like "shiny things"??

B.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Perhaps you should mention that the link to the demo is on page 5 of that thread, 4/5's of the way down.

DLing right now, thanks for the link KR!

Crazed Rabbit

[Puzz3D]

Its possible though that my control problems were due to being out of practice.

I don't think that's it. I played Chalons twice. The first time I tried targeting individual units based on tactics such as cav beats missles, etc.. Well, it didn't work. The battle became total chaos very quickly, and I observed some units doing things contrary to the orders I gave them. I lost the first time as I couldn't get orders out to all of my cavalry units fast enough to keep them away from the AI's spear infantry which chased my cav relentlessly irregardless of what it did to the organization of their own battleline. That's the AI trying to choose advantageous matchups which is how it's designed to work. I wish I had time to do the same thing.

The second time I played Chalons I put my infantry into guard mode and made two large groups of cavalry placed far out on each flank. I waited until the AI engaged my infantry and then I swept both groups of cav in by double clicking on the ground. I didn't use any individual targeting. I just did mass cav sweeps, and I won a huge victory. I didn't write it down, but I think my kills were about 10:1.

[The_Mark]

Yes, cavalry blobs are still killers. And wedge works, too.

[SpencerH]

I won the second battle (heroic victory) but I had to keep much tighter reins on the cav (ie lots of pausing which takes away from the flow of the game) and still had units 'acting up'. If thats the way the game is designed -units close to the general will quickly and accurately do what they are told while units further away will tend to do 'their own thing' -thats fine by me, I agree its more realistic. I'd like to know (officially) though that that's the case and its not another 'feature'.

Two more points:

The bug where one must continually click on enemy routing units in order to pursue them is still in place. This was particularly annoying while being told by the voice-over that I should be chasing the enemy from the field (or words to that effect) while my units stood there as enemy units virtually ran through them.

The mobile ballistae totally demoralized one of my spear units in a very short time(which I hadnt seen before to the same extent) so ARTY anti-personnel effects may be more pronounced (which I agree with).

[TB666]

I'm pleased with the demo.
I tried BKB's battlepack and it seems that the AI is alittle better.
A few complaints tho.

1. The voices - There are no new voices, some of the romans heavy infantry(forgot their names) keeps saying legionary cohort, some don't have a voice at all. CA please tell me that you are gonna add new voices in the retail.
2. The skins- I guess that's what modders are for but please alittle more effort I mean the two romans heavy infantry units that I mentioned before look exactly the same.

Other then that no problem.
Watching a huge army like in the Frank ambush in BKB battlepack at night is really beautiful with the torches.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I noticed the voices too and imagine they will change. The priests don't even have one IIRC. The night battles are an amazing addition, should provide some great encounters.

[lars573]

I lost when I played Badon hill, and won decively at Chalons. How did I do well at Chalons you ask? Easy I fought it as if I was the Seleucids fighting the Parthians. I grouped the legionaries into a sorted single line. I grouped the Scholae palatinae and the fedeorati cavalry together (in hind sight I should have stuck in the Alan heavies too). I sent the Alan HA to keep their eyes and bows on the Huns, with the cart baliistae close behind. When the Huns settled on a place to form a battle line I ran all my army to the foot of the hill they chose. But as soon as my men got there the Hun cavalry start to flank, I was like no you don't either and sent my cavalry after them. Chased them off but they were just fighting lancers and heavies, the leites were holding back. Things really went my way when my Scholae palatinae killed Attila (hehe ). The Hunnic lancers, HA, and heavies routed as soon as Attila's corpse hit the ground. Leaving the infantry and elite horsemen. My cavalry however had taken heavy losses (about 60% casualties) and the fedeorati had routed themselfs and the scholae were in the same shape. So the legionary's marched to battle. I ran them to the crest of the hills that the Huns had taken refuge on the downward slope. And let them loose their missiles. When they were gone I charged the Huns. Mean while I reformed my cavalry and moved the rest of my infantry into position (auxilia palatina, gold bands, and fedeorati infantry). As I expected the legionary's while good had some discipline problems. A unit of limitanei routed but the comitatense stood firm. The Hunnic elites were the only real pain. I needed to throw everythig close at hand at them to route them.

[Mr Frost]

The second time I played Chalons I put my infantry into guard mode and made two large groups of cavalry placed far out on each flank. I waited until the AI engaged my infantry and then I swept both groups of cav in by double clicking on the ground. I didn't use any individual targeting. I just did mass cav sweeps, and I won a huge victory. I didn't write it down, but I think my kills were about 10:1.

Sounds like classic horse army tactics to me .

The {later} Byzantines actually favored it if I remember my history correctly .

I just D.L.ed the demo myself and won a heroic victory™ at Chalons . I placed my infantry in line as was {best spears flanks , then swords and weak spears middle I think} , grouped and marched them to wait on the slope behind us . Then I grouped all my heavy cavalry with my general in line , grouped and placed them behind the infantry whilst my horse archers {which I again grouped} engaged the enemy line to draw them in whilst causing them casualities and my light cavalry I left in the woods on our left flank .
The enemy mauled and broke one of my horse archers with balista and their own horse archers {and somewhat reduced the other units} , but took quite a few casualities and more importantly , broke up their line chasing my lads whom they had no hope of catching . I simply left the horse archers to their own devices {C/A seemed to have fixed the old problem of horse archers skirmishing to the redline then getting cornered} which worked nicely .
The foe threw himself at my infantry {not all at once , but beggars can be choosers} and I sprung my ambush of light cav and my heavies at their right flank {my left} and basically rolled their line .

Silly romans :p



Edit : spelling , bet I missed some still .

[TheBigN]

Uggg I downloaded the Demo and Extracted it to a new folder i made. But when i start it up the background on the Menu is White and whenever i start a battle it CTDs. Does anyone know what the problem is?

[Mordred]

Havent played the original Rome for a while, only mods. Seems tome it is still hilariously fast, I think running speed and killing speed are even faster than original Rome. Units still do not listen to commands given. Cav trash through everything. Havent played the second battle. Waste of money, unless a good mod is being made for it.
Kenchi Mord

[Puzz3D]

I just D.L.ed the demo myself and won a heroic victory™ at Chalons . I placed my infantry in line as was {best spears flanks , then swords and weak spears middle I think} , grouped and marched them to wait on the slope behind us . Then I grouped all my heavy cavalry with my general in line , grouped and placed them behind the infantry whilst my horse archers {which I again grouped} engaged the enemy line to draw them in whilst causing them casualities and my light cavalry I left in the woods on our left flank.

You don't have to do any of that. I took the units the way they were placed. I didn't need high ground. I didn't have to place the line units in any particular order. I didn't have to group the cav in any specific way; light cav and heavy cav mixed was fine. I didn't have to give a single unit specific order or target any specific enemy unit. I only gave a single order to each of the two cav groups, then I sat back and watched.

It works because the AI doesn't defend against it. Individually, it appears that spears work against cav, but I can't tell how well they work yet. They are going to have to be able to stop massed cav attacks to pull multiplayer out of the cav spam type of gameplay that exists in RTW.

[Red Harvest]

Sounds like more of the same. Is speed really untouched? (Both combat and movement.)

[asilv]

Is speed really untouched? (Both combat and movement.)

Combat is maybe little slower, but movement speed is unchanged.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Played Chalons and on the whole the AI seemed a bit more robust even if I'm puzzled why it favopured a reverse slope defense, leaving me to chuck javalins down onto the Huns. Gave the AI a sound thrashing, ofcourse wiping out nearly every Hun, leaving under a hundred alive, losing 46 men myself. Yawn.

Still could've been worse. All my Chariot Ballistas healed themselves. How did they die, you ask? I'm not entirely sure. I was moving them in to engage heavy hun cavalry, they took aim through their front, fired... and instantenously dropped dead, all but two of them, who died on their next volley. That's right, THEY KILLED THEMSELVES!!!! I couldn't quite catch what happened as my new place hasn't got curtains yet and the sun glare made it difficult to see what happened in detail but they all dropped dead on the very same moment, just as they fired. Still killed nine enemy men according to the AAR, surprisingly.
Anyone else seen this?

[SpencerH]

Sounds like more of the same. Is speed really untouched? (Both combat and movement.)

Very much so. I played Badon Hill and it was very reminiscent of a good RTS.

[SpencerH]

A couple more points.

A funny blue bar appears on the unit cards when they are swimming. It took me a few seconds to figure out what it was since I noticed it during a bit of a tense moment'.

Its a big mistake to try to swim missile units across a river with skirmish on. Not having played in a while, I forgot to turn off skirmish mode for foot missile units- thanks for leaving that as default CA- so they swam back and forth across the river and were totally useless.

PS swimming archers is totally bogus. Natural bowstrings become useless when wet.

[Red Harvest]

Very much so. I played Badon Hill and it was very reminiscent of a good RTS.

Well, crud. I've not even been able to get my interest level up enough to download the demo. CA warned us that there was not much they could do about the speeds without rebuilding the game. And with the short time between the expansion pack and the game it was clear that they wouldn't have time to do nearly what was needed.

Maybe CA will be back on track when the 4th TW generation comes out.

[Lysander]

I really like the new general model for the barbarian, and I like the roman one too. However, I saw a few graphical glitches with the models I hope they fix.

(1) Look at the Paladin Bodyguards in this picture:
https://img221.imageshack.us/img221/...nvasion3dt.jpg
One side of their body is falling apart.

(2) Look at the Scholae Palatinae:
https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1308/invasion23aq.jpg
When they turn their heads they become mutants, the chin stays put and the top goes where it wants.

I hope CA sees these and fixes them, I think it would not be too hard.

[TB666]

(1) Look at the Paladin Bodyguards in this picture:
https://img221.imageshack.us/img221/...nvasion3dt.jpg
One side of their body is falling apart.

(2) Look at the Scholae Palatinae:
https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1308/invasion23aq.jpg
When they turn their heads they become mutants, the chin stays put and the top goes where it wants.

I hope CA sees these and fixes them, I think it would not be too hard.

I don't have any of those glitches.
Probably hardware related.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Seems like the same move and attack speed. And I get these weird flashing graphical glitches, and I had one blue screen of death and one CTD.

Crazed Rabbit