BI Demo Comments

[SpencerH]

The BI demo is available on this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=51712 (although it may take some while to download as the servers become busy). I thought it might be a good idea to start a seperate thread with comments on the demo since they seem to be cropping up on seperate threads.

I've only played Chalons so far and retired once my general got killed (course I havent played in months).

I had no problem starting the demo from King Ragnar nor have I had a CTD or any other glitches. Technically it worked as well as 1.2.

Part of the reason I lost was that I had problems controling the HA and light cav who tended to have 'minds of their own' i.e. giving new orders to units took a long time to have an effect or the ordered changes never happened at all. Of course, in the few seconds while you're trying to re-direct your 4 units of light cav who're chasing after 1 unit of enemy HA the battle is lost. So one thing for sure, the demo game speed is not slowed down. Battles are still way too quick even with pausing. I'm unsure whether the problems with my HA were caused by the 'parthian shot bug'.

Its possible though that my control problems were due to being out of practice.

[The_Mark]

Well, the AI seems now able to do coordinated charges against player's battleline (though the AI troops that were part of the frontal charge still routed on contact). AI should utilize their precursor javelins, as they currently don't.

On technical side, I'm getting the strobe effect in night battles described earlier.

[barocca]

nope

i saw that too

cav tend to keep going, or go after a different unit,

getting them back under control can take some doing,
(kinda historicaly accurate actually)
try clicking them onto the ground THEN get them to attack another unit

why should they go attack that unrouted unit when they have easy pickings right here, eh?
or maybe they just like "shiny things"??

B.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Perhaps you should mention that the link to the demo is on page 5 of that thread, 4/5's of the way down.

DLing right now, thanks for the link KR!

Crazed Rabbit

[Puzz3D]

Its possible though that my control problems were due to being out of practice.

I don't think that's it. I played Chalons twice. The first time I tried targeting individual units based on tactics such as cav beats missles, etc.. Well, it didn't work. The battle became total chaos very quickly, and I observed some units doing things contrary to the orders I gave them. I lost the first time as I couldn't get orders out to all of my cavalry units fast enough to keep them away from the AI's spear infantry which chased my cav relentlessly irregardless of what it did to the organization of their own battleline. That's the AI trying to choose advantageous matchups which is how it's designed to work. I wish I had time to do the same thing.

The second time I played Chalons I put my infantry into guard mode and made two large groups of cavalry placed far out on each flank. I waited until the AI engaged my infantry and then I swept both groups of cav in by double clicking on the ground. I didn't use any individual targeting. I just did mass cav sweeps, and I won a huge victory. I didn't write it down, but I think my kills were about 10:1.

[The_Mark]

Yes, cavalry blobs are still killers. And wedge works, too.

[SpencerH]

I won the second battle (heroic victory) but I had to keep much tighter reins on the cav (ie lots of pausing which takes away from the flow of the game) and still had units 'acting up'. If thats the way the game is designed -units close to the general will quickly and accurately do what they are told while units further away will tend to do 'their own thing' -thats fine by me, I agree its more realistic. I'd like to know (officially) though that that's the case and its not another 'feature'.

Two more points:

The bug where one must continually click on enemy routing units in order to pursue them is still in place. This was particularly annoying while being told by the voice-over that I should be chasing the enemy from the field (or words to that effect) while my units stood there as enemy units virtually ran through them.

The mobile ballistae totally demoralized one of my spear units in a very short time(which I hadnt seen before to the same extent) so ARTY anti-personnel effects may be more pronounced (which I agree with).

[TB666]

I'm pleased with the demo.
I tried BKB's battlepack and it seems that the AI is alittle better.
A few complaints tho.

1. The voices - There are no new voices, some of the romans heavy infantry(forgot their names) keeps saying legionary cohort, some don't have a voice at all. CA please tell me that you are gonna add new voices in the retail.
2. The skins- I guess that's what modders are for but please alittle more effort I mean the two romans heavy infantry units that I mentioned before look exactly the same.

Other then that no problem.
Watching a huge army like in the Frank ambush in BKB battlepack at night is really beautiful with the torches.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I noticed the voices too and imagine they will change. The priests don't even have one IIRC. The night battles are an amazing addition, should provide some great encounters.

[lars573]

I lost when I played Badon hill, and won decively at Chalons. How did I do well at Chalons you ask? Easy I fought it as if I was the Seleucids fighting the Parthians. I grouped the legionaries into a sorted single line. I grouped the Scholae palatinae and the fedeorati cavalry together (in hind sight I should have stuck in the Alan heavies too). I sent the Alan HA to keep their eyes and bows on the Huns, with the cart baliistae close behind. When the Huns settled on a place to form a battle line I ran all my army to the foot of the hill they chose. But as soon as my men got there the Hun cavalry start to flank, I was like no you don't either and sent my cavalry after them. Chased them off but they were just fighting lancers and heavies, the leites were holding back. Things really went my way when my Scholae palatinae killed Attila (hehe ). The Hunnic lancers, HA, and heavies routed as soon as Attila's corpse hit the ground. Leaving the infantry and elite horsemen. My cavalry however had taken heavy losses (about 60% casualties) and the fedeorati had routed themselfs and the scholae were in the same shape. So the legionary's marched to battle. I ran them to the crest of the hills that the Huns had taken refuge on the downward slope. And let them loose their missiles. When they were gone I charged the Huns. Mean while I reformed my cavalry and moved the rest of my infantry into position (auxilia palatina, gold bands, and fedeorati infantry). As I expected the legionary's while good had some discipline problems. A unit of limitanei routed but the comitatense stood firm. The Hunnic elites were the only real pain. I needed to throw everythig close at hand at them to route them.

[Mr Frost]

The second time I played Chalons I put my infantry into guard mode and made two large groups of cavalry placed far out on each flank. I waited until the AI engaged my infantry and then I swept both groups of cav in by double clicking on the ground. I didn't use any individual targeting. I just did mass cav sweeps, and I won a huge victory. I didn't write it down, but I think my kills were about 10:1.

Sounds like classic horse army tactics to me .

The {later} Byzantines actually favored it if I remember my history correctly .

I just D.L.ed the demo myself and won a heroic victory™ at Chalons . I placed my infantry in line as was {best spears flanks , then swords and weak spears middle I think} , grouped and marched them to wait on the slope behind us . Then I grouped all my heavy cavalry with my general in line , grouped and placed them behind the infantry whilst my horse archers {which I again grouped} engaged the enemy line to draw them in whilst causing them casualities and my light cavalry I left in the woods on our left flank .
The enemy mauled and broke one of my horse archers with balista and their own horse archers {and somewhat reduced the other units} , but took quite a few casualities and more importantly , broke up their line chasing my lads whom they had no hope of catching . I simply left the horse archers to their own devices {C/A seemed to have fixed the old problem of horse archers skirmishing to the redline then getting cornered} which worked nicely .
The foe threw himself at my infantry {not all at once , but beggars can be choosers} and I sprung my ambush of light cav and my heavies at their right flank {my left} and basically rolled their line .

Silly romans :p



Edit : spelling , bet I missed some still .

[TheBigN]

Uggg I downloaded the Demo and Extracted it to a new folder i made. But when i start it up the background on the Menu is White and whenever i start a battle it CTDs. Does anyone know what the problem is?

[Lysander]

I really like the new general model for the barbarian, and I like the roman one too. However, I saw a few graphical glitches with the models I hope they fix.

(1) Look at the Paladin Bodyguards in this picture:
https://img221.imageshack.us/img221/...nvasion3dt.jpg
One side of their body is falling apart.

(2) Look at the Scholae Palatinae:
https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1308/invasion23aq.jpg
When they turn their heads they become mutants, the chin stays put and the top goes where it wants.

I hope CA sees these and fixes them, I think it would not be too hard.

[Mordred]

Havent played the original Rome for a while, only mods. Seems tome it is still hilariously fast, I think running speed and killing speed are even faster than original Rome. Units still do not listen to commands given. Cav trash through everything. Havent played the second battle. Waste of money, unless a good mod is being made for it.
Kenchi Mord

[TB666]

(1) Look at the Paladin Bodyguards in this picture:
https://img221.imageshack.us/img221/...nvasion3dt.jpg
One side of their body is falling apart.

(2) Look at the Scholae Palatinae:
https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1308/invasion23aq.jpg
When they turn their heads they become mutants, the chin stays put and the top goes where it wants.

I hope CA sees these and fixes them, I think it would not be too hard.

I don't have any of those glitches.
Probably hardware related.

[Puzz3D]

I just D.L.ed the demo myself and won a heroic victory™ at Chalons . I placed my infantry in line as was {best spears flanks , then swords and weak spears middle I think} , grouped and marched them to wait on the slope behind us . Then I grouped all my heavy cavalry with my general in line , grouped and placed them behind the infantry whilst my horse archers {which I again grouped} engaged the enemy line to draw them in whilst causing them casualities and my light cavalry I left in the woods on our left flank.

You don't have to do any of that. I took the units the way they were placed. I didn't need high ground. I didn't have to place the line units in any particular order. I didn't have to group the cav in any specific way; light cav and heavy cav mixed was fine. I didn't have to give a single unit specific order or target any specific enemy unit. I only gave a single order to each of the two cav groups, then I sat back and watched.

It works because the AI doesn't defend against it. Individually, it appears that spears work against cav, but I can't tell how well they work yet. They are going to have to be able to stop massed cav attacks to pull multiplayer out of the cav spam type of gameplay that exists in RTW.

[Red Harvest]

Sounds like more of the same. Is speed really untouched? (Both combat and movement.)

[asilv]

Is speed really untouched? (Both combat and movement.)

Combat is maybe little slower, but movement speed is unchanged.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Played Chalons and on the whole the AI seemed a bit more robust even if I'm puzzled why it favopured a reverse slope defense, leaving me to chuck javalins down onto the Huns. Gave the AI a sound thrashing, ofcourse wiping out nearly every Hun, leaving under a hundred alive, losing 46 men myself. Yawn.

Still could've been worse. All my Chariot Ballistas healed themselves. How did they die, you ask? I'm not entirely sure. I was moving them in to engage heavy hun cavalry, they took aim through their front, fired... and instantenously dropped dead, all but two of them, who died on their next volley. That's right, THEY KILLED THEMSELVES!!!! I couldn't quite catch what happened as my new place hasn't got curtains yet and the sun glare made it difficult to see what happened in detail but they all dropped dead on the very same moment, just as they fired. Still killed nine enemy men according to the AAR, surprisingly.
Anyone else seen this?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Seems like the same move and attack speed. And I get these weird flashing graphical glitches, and I had one blue screen of death and one CTD.

Crazed Rabbit

[SpencerH]

Sounds like more of the same. Is speed really untouched? (Both combat and movement.)

Very much so. I played Badon Hill and it was very reminiscent of a good RTS.

[SpencerH]

A couple more points.

A funny blue bar appears on the unit cards when they are swimming. It took me a few seconds to figure out what it was since I noticed it during a bit of a tense moment'.

Its a big mistake to try to swim missile units across a river with skirmish on. Not having played in a while, I forgot to turn off skirmish mode for foot missile units- thanks for leaving that as default CA- so they swam back and forth across the river and were totally useless.

PS swimming archers is totally bogus. Natural bowstrings become useless when wet.

[magnum]

Graphics wise everything went almost fine for me. Had one CTD at the start of a Bandon Hill battle.

Units as a whole seem to be less cohesive, spreading out over a large area... especially if you run them. Personally I think thats a good thing but it does mean you must be careful of running a unit (infantry or cav) to a point and then immediatly engaging. You need to give them some time to reform. That also makes running down routers more difficult as they're all over the place.

Did seem to have some problem with friendly fire. Lost Bandon Hill the first time as the king got killed by friendly fire. Wasn't terrible and not sure if it wasn't normal as that battle has allies in it and I think it was an ally that got me.

The red line is now the border. You come to it and its like hitting a wall. Only noticed it though while chasing routers.

Combat is still fairly quick. Basic RTW rules of whom should engage whom seem to still apply.

Infantry seemed very fast. Had an extremely difficult time maneurving my cavalry around/past enemy infantry as they'd turn and catch me very quickly. Trying to engage archers with a generals units of cav took almost have the battle map for him to catch them.

Overall seems very good. Looking forward BI whens its released. Unfortunately for me I'm more interested in the campaign map part of the game then the battles, but was still fun fighting with the new units. (Enjoyed the night battle with the glowing lights all around. )

Oh, and played the battles on Hard. Haven't tried very hard yet...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The speed seems faster - unless RTR6 actually did reduce speed. I was under the impression that it didn't, but I was shocked by the speed of the demo.

I'll have to give BKB's mod a shot, because I have no idea how to adjust scripts and the like.

[Lysander]

Sorry to go over this again, but I really think the models for the “Paladin Bodyguards” and the “Scholae Palatinae” have a little glitch in them. I suppose it could be a hardware problem of mine, but every single time I load up the game the glitch is present and it exists only in those units.

Just compare the right side of the “Paladin Bodyguards” with the “Paladins.” You should see the Bodyguards (the Frankish general unit) have a shard that sticks out and the right side of their body is exposed allowing you to see into the opposite side of their torso. See pic above. The normal Paladins look fine from the right side and they are virtually the same model.

On the “Scholae Palatinae,” do this test: just zoom the camera down and leave the Scholae Palatinae idle, un-pause the game. You should see that every once in a while a soldier in the unit turns his head to look around. When this happens the lower head remains welded to the body but the top part of the model turns around normally, this creates the distortion effect in the pic above. This happens with no other unit that I know of.

I apologize for being obstinate, but I want CA to know about it so they can fix it for the full game

[Afro Thunder]

I don't think the battles are shorter. In fact, most of the fights that I have experienced actually last longer than in RTW. I have noticed that enemy units rout after taking heavy casualties, and they stick around on the battlefield a lot longer.

Oh BTW, call me a n00b, but how do you win the Badon Hill battle? Is divine intervention a prerequisite?

[Red Harvest]

Very much so. I played Badon Hill and it was very reminiscent of a good RTS.

Well, crud. I've not even been able to get my interest level up enough to download the demo. CA warned us that there was not much they could do about the speeds without rebuilding the game. And with the short time between the expansion pack and the game it was clear that they wouldn't have time to do nearly what was needed.

Maybe CA will be back on track when the 4th TW generation comes out.

[CBR]

Maybe CA will be back on track when the 4th TW generation comes out.

Next game and expansion will be using same engine as RTW. But we can always hope...

I havent touched RTW in 5 months and the demo did remind me of why I uninstalled it back then. At least some of the new stuff gives mods even more options.


CBR

[Red Harvest]

Next game and expansion will be using same engine as RTW. But we can always hope...

I figured that. STW and MTW were the same basic engine as I understand it, so I figured they would use RTW for "nexTW."

However, it should definitely be possible to fix the speeds. It really depends on the time they have and whether or not they appreciate this as being a BIG issue. If I had the tools to fix the skeletons even I could do it (and add more skeletons to boot.) The combat kill rates, missile kill rates and things like that are also relatively straightforward, but only if you can change those base factors that are presently out of reach.

[Mordred]

I am playing the RTR 6.0 mod and funny enough the moving around of your forces now looks normal graphic wise. No more ice skating of the the little fellas who are also running around like crazy in fast forward mode as in the original or barb invasion.
So it can't be all that difficult to change that. Me thinks that that it is a choice by CA to leave it as it is. It now resembles the standard RTS where little donkey kongs eat their way into enemies with lighting speed.
Given the fact that ALL mods reduced the killing and running speed proves that most players do not like it. RTR 6.0 had 80.000 downloads after the first day. It is about time somebody takes the developers by the ears and drag them behind a computer where 6.0 is installed to have a look how 'epic' the game could be.
Why all the trouble of the beautifull graphics if you do not have time to enjoy it during battle.
Kenchi Mord