guns? good or bad?

[PittBull260]

they're suppose to be better but, archers do a much better job than the gun units when I play, which one's really better?

[Procrustes]

I had a disappointing battle using arqebuses recently, and someone suggested that I was shooting from too far away. I tried some more battles using them after that, and found that a volley from some arqs really can take out most of a unit of royal knights in one shot! The trick is to get really close - wait until they are almost upon you, or pin them with something else and then flank. The moral penalty they give is a huge advantage.

I also had a battle recently where my handgunners killed more than 200 enemy, though most of them died as well. I kept using them as flankers during a massive, confused melee - very effective. Again, close range made a huge difference.

Some things really suck about guns though....

- If it rains you are screwed - they turn into expensive clubs.
- They reload really slow - you may not get a second shot.
- You can't leave them on skirmish, or they never fire - their range is too short.


I like to use them now, but I generally never bring more than one gun unit as they are more of a novelty than something I can depend on. Also, careful on defense as you can't pick the weather - if I use them on defense I make sure I have something else I can swap them for if it's raining when I set up.

I got a lot better at using guns after playing a bunch of the "quick battles". I found that many of the QB's include guns - if you get one that doesn't just escape out and try the next one. I found the QB's to be an awful lot of fun - you get to use mixes of troops that you'll probably never get from playing solitare.

[ichi]

Arquebusiers do very well at V4A3, but there's no province that gives a bonus (at least as far as I can tell) so you have to build them in your best armor province and then stick them with a high command rating general.

Use them four ranks deep, set on Hold Formation. Don't let them battle archers or pavs, save them for cav and inf. They are deadly in MP when used late in a battle, when exhausted, depleted troops will rout under a volley. Try to place them on the flanks so you minimize friendly fire.

Especially deadly against cav (just wipe out Camels), they are also useful in pushing across bridges and into castle.

ichi

[Azi Tohak]

(Umm... if you can... I'd recommend editing the title... otherwise we might start a flame war.

Yeah, I know where we are, but will everyone else?

Azi)

[PittBull260]

(Umm... if you can... I'd recommend editing the title... otherwise we might start a flame war.

Yeah, I know where we are, but will everyone else?

Azi)

why change the title?

[m52nickerson]

The only gun unit I ever use is the Handgunners, You can flank a pinned unit, let them fire one shot then charge. If they kill one person with the shot the charge will rout almost any unit.

[Martok]

Except for cannons, I rarely bother with gun units. They're simply not worth the hassle most of the time, especially given the high levels of infrastructure required to train them in the first place.

[Ironside]

why change the title?

Azi is commenting that for those that spends much time in the backroom, this title can be quite explosive.

Are they considered a peasant unit ilke they were in STW? If so, then there's a French province that gives a bonus to peasants IIRC (Provence maybe).

Province bonuses is very speciffic, muslim peasants doesn't even get the bonus.

And guns can be devastating. Had 40 gold armoured valor 5 boyars (bad heir ) vs 120 arqs.
The result? 2 boyars was the only survivors on the battlefield
Now I've upped the accuracy of arqs to 0.1 instead of 0.07, but still...

The battle went that I charged one unit, that actually stood thier ground. The other unit got point blank shoots and killed more than 30 boyars in those volleys.

[Zarax]

I might have a couple ideas about guns, maybe you'll see them in the next ZXMOD release if I can get a bit of help...

[phred]

Arquebusiers do very well at V4A3, but there's no province that gives a bonus (at least as far as I can tell) so you have to build them in your best armor province and then stick them with a high command rating general.

ichi

Are they considered a peasant unit ilke they were in STW? If so, then there's a French province that gives a bonus to peasants IIRC (Provence maybe).

[littlebktruck]

Are they considered a peasant unit ilke they were in STW? If so, then there's a French province that gives a bonus to peasants IIRC (Provence maybe).

I would guess that bonus only applies specifically to peasants, as UM have their own bonus province (Tuscany).