Problem with Christianity

[PanzerJaeger]

In my understanding, Jesus recognized the role of government and society. "Give unto Ceasar... "

Jesus also made things in exchange for money.. So I dont think he made any statements by example in the economic arena.

Ive got to say your portrayal of the bible and the church are a bit skewed in my opinion.

The biggest contradiction between American Christians and what Jesus taught is the wealth. From what Ive been taught Jesus didnt like wealth.

However, Jesus also embraced forgiveness and a loving God.

[Byzantine Prince]

Thanks for being the only one that actually adressed my post Panzer. You are one of my favorite members here, you always see both sides of an argument. That's a very smart thing.

What do you thin about my Jesus is a Socialist argument? Don't you think that the philosophy of treat other as you would like to be treated is great metaphor for socialism?

Also I don't see how extreme capitalism is anything like Jesus's humility and compassion. Also it's very contradicotry to the 'greed is sin' idea in the Bible.


And no I have not actually erad the Bible. All I know is from school and from things I've read in religious books in school.

[Papewaio]

Do you blame the sinner for their mistake or the Bible which attempts to lay a path to steer them clear?

[PanzerJaeger]

What do you thin about my Jesus is a Socialist argument? Don't you think that the philosophy of treat other as you would like to be treated is great metaphor for socialism?

In the purest sense of the word I would say he could be called a socialist. He certainly believed in taking care of the lowest in society and disliked the pharisee mentality.

Also I don't see how extreme capitalism is anything like Jesus's humility and compassion. Also it's very contradicotry to the 'greed is sin' idea in the Bible.

As I said, the biggest contridiction between Christians today and Jesus is the wealth. However, Jesus did work for a living and helped support his family, which is what people living in capitolist societies do all over the world.


Its also important to note the differences between the different Gospels. I studied a whole year just on that. The writers MML&J each put their own emphasis' on their accounts and had their own agenda's.

If a person really wants to get a picture of Jesus the man, i think he needs to find common events that transcend the four official Gospels and those that were not admitted.

The book of Thomas, if i remember right, should be read carefully.

[Byzantine Prince]

Yes I agree, but socialist economies still have some use for money and making money, they just take care of the poor and less fortunate much better. I wasn't suggesting that Jesus was a communist.

Pape, I blame the church for misleading people. Not necassarily the church I was a part of, they seemed pretty blameless, but certainly the catholic church. Look at how much they worship the pope, with his inaguration being almost the same as that of a king in magnitude and extravagance. Do you really think Jesus aproves of that. Or how about the way they killed people for simply saying that the earth was round?!?! Or causing the crusades? Or ignoring the holocaust. These things actually hapened and how am I suposed to take when they actually still have the same traditions and leadership?

I never said Jesus was bad, I even admire him in my initial post. I thought *Christianity* was about Jesus last I checked, so not being like him is pretty unChristian wouldn't you agree?

[Strike For The South]

IMO Yes I agree the pope is given way to much credit (one of the reasons im baptist ) as for trying to be like jesus thats every true christians goal but we will eventually fall short because he is the son of god and we are man that is what repentance is for but that in no way means some of things done in the name of christ were right. As for being a socialist I don't think so neither do I think he was a capitalist I think he was trying to get people to find god and provide a set of moral codes to live by

[Divinus Arma]

The problem is religion. Religion is a perpetual dilemma of contradiction.


If there was a hell, then it would be unethical to have children. Why? Because they might go to hell. Don't you love the idea of your children enough not to risk them an eternity of hell? I don't even know them and I would rather not have them than risk damning them to an eterntiy of fiery damnation.

If thou shall have no other Gods before me, then what up with the J man?

If thou shalt not make any graven image unto me, then what up with the crucifix?

If Jesus actually died and came back, then why isn't he still hanging around?

And if Jesus is God, couldn't he come back any time he wants? So then what is the big deal with the short-term death? Die, come back, die again, come back again, rinse wash repeat.

And if he isn't God, then why are thou putting someone before the big man upstairs?

If he died for our sins wouldn't that mean he actually died? Like really died. If he got to come back, then it isn't much of a sacrifice!

Omens and portents, myths and legend. No different from our superstitious ancestors. The earth is flat! The stars are gods! The sun is a flaming chariot! Jesus rose from the dead and will come again! Simply believe and you will be given a life of eternal paradise!

I believe in monkeys that sling poo. That I can see.

[Byzantine Prince]

I don't mind tolerating Christians if they were like Jesus Christ, but most are pricks. Seriously, I don't doubt most actually believe in God and "accept" Jesus(whatever *that* means) but do they act on it? No.

That's the problem with Christianity, the church and the majority of Christians. The story of Jesus is just a story and it doesn't really matter, what he tought should be the Bible! Like what Nietzsche wrote is his philosophy not how he lived and died!(for example)

[Albino Gorilla]

The problem is religion. Religion is a perpetual dilemma of contradiction.


If there was a hell, then it would be unethical to have children. Why? Because they might go to hell. Don't you love the idea of your children enough not to risk them an eternity of hell? I don't even know them and I would rather not have them than risk damning them to an eterntiy of fiery damnation.
Because it is up to that person wheather they go to hell or not, just like it is their choice to live a sucsseful life or not
If thou shall have no other Gods before me, then what up with the J man?
He is the son of god, and some belive he is the incarnation of god
If thou shalt not make any graven image unto me, then what up with the crucifix?

If Jesus actually died and came back, then why isn't he still hanging around?
He was ressurected and ascended to heaven. He hasn't returned to our world yet.
And if Jesus is God, couldn't he come back any time he wants? So then what is the big deal with the short-term death? Die, come back, die again, come back again, rinse wash repeat.
When he returns many belive the world will end

And if he isn't God, then why are thou putting someone before the big man upstairs?
Not everyone does. Each person has an individual belif in Christianity, of course they adhere to the rules, but in each person there will be slight differences. But look, either he is or he isn't, those who think he is belive he is god, and those who belive is is only the son of god don't put him before god
If he died for our sins wouldn't that mean he actually died? Like really died. If he got to come back, then it isn't much of a sacrifice!
It wasn't a painless death
Omens and portents, myths and legend. No different from our superstitious ancestors. The earth is flat! The stars are gods! The sun is a flaming chariot! Jesus rose from the dead and will come again! Simply believe and you will be given a life of eternal paradise!
Like as was said, many people belived and yet did horrible things. For what they did, despite their belifs, they will not be granted eternal paradise
I believe in monkeys that sling poo. That I can see.

I can't remember who said this, and this isn't exactly how he said it, but having faith, is having belifs in what you can't see

[Redleg]

And no I have not actually erad the Bible. All I know is from school and from things I've read in religious books in school.

Then my suggestion is that you actually read the bible before making certain claims.

It is the source of your complaint - churches and people have failed numerous times in upholding the philosophy of being a christian - but it does not make the philosophy unsound.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Do you really think Jesus aproves of that. Or how about the way they killed people for simply saying that the earth was round?!?! Or causing the crusades? Or ignoring the holocaust. These things actually hapened and how am I suposed to take when they actually still have the same traditions and leadership?

Um, they didn't kill people for saying the earth was round. In fact, I believe it is a misconception that people believed the earth was flat in the middle ages.

As for the crusades; they were a defensive move. It was responding to the Muslim invasion of the Holy Land. Christians have a right to defend themselves, after all.

And ignoring the holocaust?! Please, our last Pope actually was in the resistance against the Nazis!

Could you at least get your facts straight and not accuse Christians of every thing you may have read on some dan-brown-lovin' website?

Crazed Rabbit

[AntiochusIII]

Um, they didn't kill people for saying the earth was round. In fact, I believe it is a misconception that people believed the earth was flat in the middle ages.

Really? Interesting. Could you show me some links please?

As for the crusades; they were a defensive move. It was responding to the Muslim invasion of the Holy Land. Christians have a right to defend themselves, after all.

Erm...defensive move? Don't be joking. The Muslims took it from the Eastern Romans - Orthodox Christians, perhaps, but surely not Catholic, and both were bitter rivals as much as Christians and Muslims were - centuries before the First Crusade. Everybody knows Eastern Roman Emperor (Byzantine, I know :p) Alexius Comnenus was desperate for reinforcements to fight off the Turks in Anatolia and started the whole thing...except the West (at the time) was a bit more fanatical and responded a bit too positive to his plea than poor Alexius thought...

And then the wars get into the cycle of revenge and counter-attack and new generations of ambitious "knights" until the Christians finally gave up.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The myth of the flat earth theory

Orthodox Christians, perhaps, but surely not Catholic, and both were bitter rivals as much as Christians and Muslims were

The Orthodox and Catholics were bitter rivals? I find that interesting, could you provide any links?

And yes, it was defensive: the Muslims attacked (and not just around Israel either, but also in the west on the Iberian pennisula) and the Christians had to defend themselves and their faith.

Crazed Rabbit

[AntiochusIII]

The Orthodox and Catholics were bitter rivals? I find that interesting, could you provide any links?

And yes, it was defensive: the Muslims attacked (and not just around Israel either, but also in the west on the Iberian pennisula) and the Christians had to defend themselves and their faith.

Crazed Rabbit

I guess I shouldn't go to biased websites for the link, so...wikipedia then.

(will my link work?)...

There is also a record about how the last Constantine (X or something...) tried to plead for the help of the West by "reuniting" the two churches, and that results in the alienation between him and his few subjects. Several websites (not biased, historical ones) recorded this.

However, I never heard of any wars between the two sides of the church, as it is clear that the Byzantines were the leaders of the Orthodox and that by the time the two churches broke apart, they were in decline, fighting for their lives against the Seljuks, and later, the Ottomans.

Of course, unless you count the 4th crusade.

Edit: Oh, and the invasion of Iberia (and Southern France) was like...4 or 5 centuries before the First Crusade. In fact, by the time of the First Crusade, Christian Spain already started the Reconquista, by El Cid ;p , and, as far as I know, the pope never really called for an "international" crusade (continental would be better?) in Spain.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Why homosexuality is banned by the Catholic Church:
(taken from the New English Bible, published by Oxford Cambridge)

1 Corinthians 6:9 and 10

Surely you know the unjust will never come into the Kingdom of God. Make no mistake: no fornicator or idolator, none who are guilty either of adultery or homosexual perversion, no theives or grabbers or drunkards or slanderers or swindlers, will posses the Kingdom of God