Problem with Christianity

[Byzantine Prince]

Yes I agree, but socialist economies still have some use for money and making money, they just take care of the poor and less fortunate much better. I wasn't suggesting that Jesus was a communist.

Pape, I blame the church for misleading people. Not necassarily the church I was a part of, they seemed pretty blameless, but certainly the catholic church. Look at how much they worship the pope, with his inaguration being almost the same as that of a king in magnitude and extravagance. Do you really think Jesus aproves of that. Or how about the way they killed people for simply saying that the earth was round?!?! Or causing the crusades? Or ignoring the holocaust. These things actually hapened and how am I suposed to take when they actually still have the same traditions and leadership?

I never said Jesus was bad, I even admire him in my initial post. I thought *Christianity* was about Jesus last I checked, so not being like him is pretty unChristian wouldn't you agree?

[Strike For The South]

IMO Yes I agree the pope is given way to much credit (one of the reasons im baptist ) as for trying to be like jesus thats every true christians goal but we will eventually fall short because he is the son of god and we are man that is what repentance is for but that in no way means some of things done in the name of christ were right. As for being a socialist I don't think so neither do I think he was a capitalist I think he was trying to get people to find god and provide a set of moral codes to live by

[Divinus Arma]

The problem is religion. Religion is a perpetual dilemma of contradiction.


If there was a hell, then it would be unethical to have children. Why? Because they might go to hell. Don't you love the idea of your children enough not to risk them an eternity of hell? I don't even know them and I would rather not have them than risk damning them to an eterntiy of fiery damnation.

If thou shall have no other Gods before me, then what up with the J man?

If thou shalt not make any graven image unto me, then what up with the crucifix?

If Jesus actually died and came back, then why isn't he still hanging around?

And if Jesus is God, couldn't he come back any time he wants? So then what is the big deal with the short-term death? Die, come back, die again, come back again, rinse wash repeat.

And if he isn't God, then why are thou putting someone before the big man upstairs?

If he died for our sins wouldn't that mean he actually died? Like really died. If he got to come back, then it isn't much of a sacrifice!

Omens and portents, myths and legend. No different from our superstitious ancestors. The earth is flat! The stars are gods! The sun is a flaming chariot! Jesus rose from the dead and will come again! Simply believe and you will be given a life of eternal paradise!

I believe in monkeys that sling poo. That I can see.

[Byzantine Prince]

I don't mind tolerating Christians if they were like Jesus Christ, but most are pricks. Seriously, I don't doubt most actually believe in God and "accept" Jesus(whatever *that* means) but do they act on it? No.

That's the problem with Christianity, the church and the majority of Christians. The story of Jesus is just a story and it doesn't really matter, what he tought should be the Bible! Like what Nietzsche wrote is his philosophy not how he lived and died!(for example)

[rasoforos]

First of all there isa fundamental flaw in believing on a omnipotent and error free God. Simply, everyone things that God thinks like him and would encourage his views, as a result everyone else is wrong or a heretic ( Just look how fast religious fight broke at the 'Christian Club' thread.)

Secondly its the bible. We have two very contradictory groups of texts there. An angry God with a serious attitude problem in the old testament, killing children, killing ppl who dont follow what he says, vengeful and in serious need of anger management classes. On the other hand Jesus comes and talks about non violence, forgiveness, tollerance, the support of the marginalised.

Not willing to abandon one testament in favour of the other people have found convenient compromises using the version that suits them most every time. So nothing changes, its just that before religion to kill someone you would need to bypass your moral barriers ( if you had any), after religion you can just find a relevant quote and go on killing guilt free...in the name of an All mercifull God.

Finally the bible has another problem. Most versions out there, especially in protestant countries with various different dogmas, are not only greviouslt misstranslated but also heavily revised, with verses missing or having beem changed totally to suit the ideas of the dogma. Since most people cannot read Hellenistic Greek they get away with it.



As to if capitalism can go with Christianity:

Well, truth be told, the first Christians were more or less Communal. They were mostly living in groups, were sharing their goods, finance and their food, were eating in big communal dinners. Also the early forms of confession, if memory serves right, were communal.

As a result the first Christians were something between hippies and communists the way I see it.

However, lets face it, there is no such thing as 100% capitalism. Even countries like the US, who have been priding on being capitalist, have implemented large socialist reforms ( they just dont call them that ), like wellfare, public health programs, benefits etc etc. As a result, for a society where the rich do give to the poor...somewhat, like most free market economies today , you cannot say that the Economy is incompatible with the Christian ideals.

[Navaros]

On the other hand Jesus comes and talks about non violence, forgiveness, tollerance, the support of the marginalised.

Jesus certainly does not tolerate sin. he tries to help sinners, yes, but to say he is "tolerant" is a gross misrepresentation of what Jesus is all about.

@the comment saying Jesus was socialist: correct me if i'm wrong, but do socialists not support the murder of babies via "abortion"? if so most certainly Jesus is not a socialist.

as for saying that Christians have done so many evil things: secular society at large has done and does do much more evil things than what Christians have done. the worst of course being the legalized holocaust and genocide of babies called "abortion"

any evil committed by Christians certainly pales immensely in comparison to that

[rasoforos]

Jesus certainly does not tolerate sin. he tries to help sinners, yes, but to say he is "tolerant" is a gross misrepresentation of what Jesus is all about.

@the comment saying Jesus was socialist: correct me if i'm wrong, but do socialists not support the murder of babies via "abortion"? if so most certainly Jesus is not a socialist.

Yes, I clearly remember Jesus giving an anti-abortion speech at the hills of Gallilea...


If you need to talk anti abortion please do so without quoting something totally irrelevant to what u want to say.

I also find the idea that 'socialists' greatest atribute to be 'abortion' to be a bit....shall i say...non realistic?

I think you really need to see what socialist policy means, you kinda have it all wrong.


I m not gonna go into a theological discussion but, Jesus, having said 'love eachother', and having said ' forgive em ' when they crucified him must have been at least a bit tollerant to sin. Else he d say ' love eachother unless the others are sinners' and ' waste the bloody $%#^&$ and sent their sinful #$%# to hell'

But this kind of idea of an intollerant Jesus proves my point, people just 'shape' religion to fit their ideals.

[bmolsson]

Christianity, like most other religions, are nothing but a powerstructure used to oppress people. Instead of elections you have the leaders appointed by a deity. Furthermore, it is a socialist structure with people treated as a mob and the trading with "souls" is used beside the normal economocal trade.
The entry of democracy will in the end remove the religions as they will loose power and become outdated.

[Roark]

Christianity, like most other religions, are nothing but a powerstructure used to oppress people.

I reject this notion, given the extensive charity work that goes on under the Christian banner. Conveniently ignored?

The church that I was raised in as a youngster never tried to oppress me, nor am I aware of anything like this going on in the mainstream denominations.

Perhaps your knowledge of Christianity is limited to the medieval/Renaissance periods, and to the Catholic church...

The entry of democracy will in the end remove the religions as they will loose power and become outdated.

Again, I don't find this to be accurate. The vast majority of Christian nations have been democratic for some time now...

Church attendance is falling, but I don't see a link to democracy.

[bmolsson]

I reject this notion, given the extensive charity work that goes on under the Christian banner. Conveniently ignored?

The church that I was raised in as a youngster never tried to oppress me, nor am I aware of anything like this going on in the mainstream denominations.

Perhaps your knowledge of Christianity is limited to the medieval/Renaissance periods, and to the Catholic church...

Not at all. Devoted Christians are not always evil, most of them are actually good people. But this doesn't change the fact that Christianity is a religion, which strives for political power and have always done so.

Again, I don't find this to be accurate. The vast majority of Christian nations have been democratic for some time now...

Church attendance is falling, but I don't see a link to democracy.

There is a direct link between increased secularism and democracy. It's quite obvious actually.

[Roark]

This is really the statement I kinda took issue with, Bmolsson. It is far more dismissive and blinkered than I have come to expect from you.

nothing but a powerstructure used to oppress people

There are many more considerable facets to faith and the religion itself. This is what I would I would have expected from the one-liner atheists that pronounce their "obvious truths" about the universe in many of the other religious threads.

I doubt that Christianity will ever truly die out, even considering the passing of primeval faiths like Shamanism and pantheism.

[Sigurd]

*Starts wondering if I am on everyone’s ignore list*

I posted a quite provocative post in this thread and no one found it such? No comments?

The question of this thread is Problem with Christianity and I postulated that the real problem is that there should be no Christian organisation today. It ended in the crossover of the 1st and 2nd century.

[Devastatin Dave]

I don't mind tolerating Christians if they were like Jesus Christ, but most are pricks.

Very revealing....

[Albino Gorilla]

The problem is religion. Religion is a perpetual dilemma of contradiction.


If there was a hell, then it would be unethical to have children. Why? Because they might go to hell. Don't you love the idea of your children enough not to risk them an eternity of hell? I don't even know them and I would rather not have them than risk damning them to an eterntiy of fiery damnation.
Because it is up to that person wheather they go to hell or not, just like it is their choice to live a sucsseful life or not
If thou shall have no other Gods before me, then what up with the J man?
He is the son of god, and some belive he is the incarnation of god
If thou shalt not make any graven image unto me, then what up with the crucifix?

If Jesus actually died and came back, then why isn't he still hanging around?
He was ressurected and ascended to heaven. He hasn't returned to our world yet.
And if Jesus is God, couldn't he come back any time he wants? So then what is the big deal with the short-term death? Die, come back, die again, come back again, rinse wash repeat.
When he returns many belive the world will end

And if he isn't God, then why are thou putting someone before the big man upstairs?
Not everyone does. Each person has an individual belif in Christianity, of course they adhere to the rules, but in each person there will be slight differences. But look, either he is or he isn't, those who think he is belive he is god, and those who belive is is only the son of god don't put him before god
If he died for our sins wouldn't that mean he actually died? Like really died. If he got to come back, then it isn't much of a sacrifice!
It wasn't a painless death
Omens and portents, myths and legend. No different from our superstitious ancestors. The earth is flat! The stars are gods! The sun is a flaming chariot! Jesus rose from the dead and will come again! Simply believe and you will be given a life of eternal paradise!
Like as was said, many people belived and yet did horrible things. For what they did, despite their belifs, they will not be granted eternal paradise
I believe in monkeys that sling poo. That I can see.

I can't remember who said this, and this isn't exactly how he said it, but having faith, is having belifs in what you can't see