What is the greatest military orginiztion of the 20th century?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I would have to say hands down The United States Marine Corps. No other service has such a magnificent battle record in the history of the world . We dont loose battles its plain and simple.

[yesdachi]

All of America’s military is pretty great (Even the American Coast Guard could send some countries into the stone age) but the forces are small and already stretched thin. The forces are powerful and surgical in precision but lack the numbers to make the “requested changes” of any offensive stick, as we are seeing Iraq today. That’s why we are training the Iraq military to take care of themselves because we simply cant do it.

In MTW terms a provinces loyalty determines rebellion and is controlled by the number of troops present not the quality of them. Even thought the marines are the “greatest” there are only a few thousand of them (or less) and the number is not likely to change much as the American people hate to see their little boy “over there” at Christmas or for birthdays, Easter, thanksgiving, Columbus day, Sunday, etc.

Greatest? Marines, sure, they do have a great record of winning but maybe an even more specialized force like the deltas or another special forces unit that “we” are not suppose to know about are the greatest attackers but for taking over or occupation I don’t know, America has never “conquered” anything I can think of, WWI & II, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, etc. maybe the last time America conquered something was America and I think we are on the verge of rebellion right now! The Native Americans have been saving all the casino money for a huge offensive against the white man!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Im talking of winning major battles here. Again no service in modern times compares to the United States Marines record in this matter. Not even our own army navy and airforce.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I would have to say the US military as a whole, but more specifically the USAF or USN. Yes the USMC is the greatest infantry force in the world, but they would be high and dry without the USAF and USN transporting them and destroying pockets of significant resistance. No force in the world approaches the destructive potential of either the USN or the USAF.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I'd beg to differ Gawain. The USMC might have the best people, and the hardiest reputation. But they aren't necesarrily the "greatest" as in the most powerful.

Thats not what I stated. Im speaking of their battle record. The Navy army and air force dont come even close.

Yes the USMC is the greatest infantry force in the world, but they would be high and dry without the USAF and USN transporting them and destroying pockets of significant resistance.

Wrong they have their own airforce. Again tough Im talking about their battle record .

[Don Corleone]

Hmmm, I don't know. The Afrikiakorps, when it was being properly supplied was a pretty damned impressive fighting force. In the end though, yeah, I gotta go with the USMC. Give them enough lead & oil to keep pushing ahead and no beach in the world is safe.

[yesdachi]

Seriously, Marines freak me out.

I watched a marine and a navy seal argue in a bar about a similar topic, that freaked me out

[Proletariat]

Thats not what I stated. Im speaking of their battle record. The Navy army and air force dont come even close.

Does the Mossad or Delta Force count according to your criteria?

[LeftEyeNine]

I would have to say hands down The United States Marine Corps. No other service has such a magnificent battle record in the history of the world . We dont loose battles its plain and simple.

I am sick of this never-ending US propaganda..

The biggest is US Marines.. So be it.. I have the most sarcastic smile ever on my face right now..

THis is not a way of opening a discussion.. It is a wise way to camouflage your [TosaInu]..

[LeftEyeNine]

Hey, uh, if you ever met a Marine I assure you you'd think differently. I'm not a big propaganda nut, but it doesn't take a flag-waving bush-lover to see that the Marines are just.. scary.

Hey, uh, if you ever met a Mehmetcik (we call our marines that way) I assure you'd think differently..

(Copy & paste with a few edits..)

..Ok ok so be it, God bless US and his invulnerable troops.. They are maginificent, oh my god, I want a US pass, oh my, Marines are incredible Mech-like-war-machines.. God bless our offical gendarmes of the world..

[PanzerJaeger]

THis is not a way of opening a discussion.. It is a wise way to camouflage your [TosaInu]..

Actually it is a very good way of opening a discussion.

You ask a question and then give your opinion and leave it open for discussion?

Did you expect him to post his question and then not give his opinion?

You just dont like hearing good things about America - tough. If you think your marines are better, post that and give support to that claim.

How many battles have the Mehmetcik won?

[LeftEyeNine]

No not that way. Infact, I'd be happy to see USA someday, so called the land of liberty. I'm not an anti nor a US-silly. I'm just bored of the ongoing propaganda about US here lately..

After the Turkish Independence War, we were not actually involved in much battles..

However South Koreans still remember the heroic help of Mehmetcik.. They are always grateful with Turkey..

In Cyprus, Mehmetcik prevented Northern Cypriot Turks from being genocided..

As long as they took part in a battle, they never failed.

But do not forget that it counts for the period after the foundation of Turkey in 1923.

Anyway, I am not keen on "Hey, What is the greatest military organization ever? I think we rule.. We are awesome ! We are so incredible ! We own all ! We rule! We patrol the whole world ! We blah-blah!!" subject..

Actually I'd like to be informed about Vietnam Syndrome and the outcome of Iraq occupation..

[Marquis of Roland]

My old roomate was Marine Recon, and he said that after meeting people from the SAS/SBS and the French Foreign Legion on some training mission, those guys are "the craziest guys I've ever met".

This is coming from a guy who told me he only used a red marker (as a knife) in US wargames in the California desert.

How about the Airborne and the Rangers?

[Papewaio]

Hey, uh, if you ever met a Marine I assure you you'd think differently. I'm not a big propaganda nut, but it doesn't take a flag-waving bush-lover to see that the Marines are just.. scary.

I used to see a lot of marines on the streets in Perth on R&R, they are not exceptionally tall, but like the SAS guys I went to uni with they are all stocky guys. If anything the Marines calm confidence was far more reassuring then some of the try hards I meet at parties trying to show how manly they were by starting fights.

My first cousin has played rugby union against the SAS rugby team in Perth... he says they play very hard but very fair... just not many teams play unsportsmanlike with them either

[Kraxis]

I used to see a lot of marines on the streets in Perth on R&R, they are not exceptionally tall, but like the SAS guys I went to uni with they are all stocky guys. If anything the Marines calm confidence was far more reassuring then some of the try hards I meet at parties trying to show how manly they were by starting fights.

My first cousin has played rugby union against the SAS rugby team in Perth... he says they play very hard but very fair... just not many teams play unsportsmanlike with them either

Heh... I have a similar experience with the Danish special forces Frømandskorpset (essentially The Frogman Corps). They are all nice and friendly, but it is like everything seems to bore them. Not obviously, but if you look into their eyes they are dead, you know like a man who have had a few beers.

It took me some time before I understood. But now it is so obvious to me.
They can't allow themselves to get excited, that would be very dangerous when traveling far underwater. Scary prospect. But I never want to get tangled with them. They are alays very quiet at bars, but there are always some ass who wants to show in front of them... Well the results are obvious.

[Marquis of Roland]

I used to see a lot of marines on the streets in Perth on R&R, they are not exceptionally tall, but like the SAS guys I went to uni with they are all stocky guys. If anything the Marines calm confidence was far more reassuring then some of the try hards I meet at parties trying to show how manly they were by starting fights.

Being short or having a small head is definitely an asset in modern warfare.

[English assassin]

Two more suggestions:

The first is a bit time limited, but the title of the thread doesn't necessarily imply the organisation has to have been around throughout C20. RAF Fighter Command 1940. The first modern integrated air defence network, with really efficient and effective use of radar and ground based fighter controllers. We all know what happened when the previously invincible Luftwaffe took that one on. What isn't so widely known is that it wasn't even close and none of it was down to luck.

The second certainly has been around for a while: The Royal Navy. (BTW I might be wrong but isn't the Royal Navy the oldest continually exisiting military organisation in the world?) I think its fair to say no other military organisation has had such wide ranging genuinely global commitments in C20, and it managed them superbly against the most difficult background of declining resources and new powers coming into the ascendancy. Its easy to be top dog when you ARE top dog, but meeting your commitments when budgets are being cut and Britain is sinking down to a second rate power, that's a real test of character.

And character counts for a lot. As Admiral Cunningham famously said during the Battle of Crete (where the navy was taking heavy losses from air attack by operating without air cover to evacuate the army) "It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" That's the spirit !

[yesdachi]

The second certainly has been around for a while: The Royal Navy. (BTW I might be wrong but isn't the Royal Navy the oldest continually exisiting military organisation in the world?) I think its fair to say no other military organisation has had such wide ranging genuinely global commitments in C20, and it managed them superbly against the most difficult background of declining resources and new powers coming into the ascendancy. Its easy to be top dog when you ARE top dog, but meeting your commitments when budgets are being cut and Britain is sinking down to a second rate power, that's a real test of character.

The Royal Navy is pretty great and do have a long tradition of excellence. But they also have some faults that take them out of the running for me.
1. The Press Gang: totally not cool to force others into service.
2. The choice to be fast and maneuverable against the powerful but slow Germans –(Bismarck sp? style ships)

Both issues have been taken care of and now they seem to have a powerful navy (I really like the small aircraft carriers) but the fact that they took so many losses to the Germans because of their ship design takes them out of contention in my book.

[Gemenii XIII]

I would have to say hands down The United States Marine Corps. No other service has such a magnificent battle record in the history of the world . We dont loose battles its plain and simple.

But you do loose wars

[Kraxis]

Gawain, you setthe rules in the first post and had plenty of time to correct the mistake of not putting 'major org.' in it. Yet you didn't. Suddenly when people start making quite good arguments for other organizations you backpedal and make certain that none but the Marines can be selected.

If you are going to say Corps size then sure the Marines are by far the best (and that was established long ago here), why? Because they are the only non-full Army out there of that size. Meaning the only contestants are others nations' armies. Also about 90% of all nations are out of the contest being that their armies are too small. That is very much a weighted discussion in my mind.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

If you are going to say Corps size then sure the Marines are by far the best (and that was established long ago here), why? Because they are the only non-full Army out there of that size. Meaning the only contestants are others nations' armies. Also about 90% of all nations are out of the contest being that their armies are too small. That is very much a weighted discussion in my mind.

Wrong . They are better than any organization thats bigger than them either. Its not because they are the only unit of that size but that they are the best trained and most motivated unit of that size or larger.

Gawain, you setthe rules in the first post and had plenty of time to correct the mistake of not putting 'major org.' in it. Yet you didn't. Suddenly when people start making quite good arguments for other organizations you backpedal and make certain that none but the Marines can be selected.

I admitted quite early on that I wasnt talking about special units. Of course their better than the Marines. We have had threads on those and I think the SAS comes in first there. Im talking about being able to fight major battles with records in war of having done so.I also gave a time thread and over the last 100 years no ones battle history even comes close .

[Duke Malcolm]

Major organizations? The British Army is a major Organization and I would say that it is better than the U.S. Marine Corps.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Major organizations? The British Army is a major Organization and I would say that it is better than the U.S. Marine Corps.

It has so many losses its not funny. Nothing like the Corps. Heck it couldnt even beat a bunch of armed farmers over here nevermind the Marines . How big is the British army by the way?

[Zizka]

Gawain of Orkeny - you are a hypocrite. You stated earlier that the Marine Corps is the best all round major independent armed force and yet you then dislude the Waffen SS because they used armour. You should state what you want to argue, that the USMC is the best all round light infantry amphibious assult force.

You also say that the USMC uses second hand equipment after bragging about how they field air and artillary support that other countries do not even have.

If you want to talk about accomplishments the 3rd US Army in the second world war took more prisoners, captured more land and destroyed more enemy equipment than the USMC have managed in their entire history.

As to the best MAJOR military organization of the 20th Century, basing this on having never been deafeated (the USMC has), never reatreating and few losses I would have to say the Vaticans Swiss Guards (and that is a Major organisation judging from ratio to population).

Bah, good grief mate, the USMC is only great in the eyes of its members. It has far yet to go in order to reach the fame of the Waffen Schutzstaffel or the Legion Estrange.