Well? What do you think?
Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Well? What do you think?
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
I think the Soviets had the right idea in regards to the Berlin Wall.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
GC --- Click the little arrow button to the right of the page 5.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Regarding the problem in the US, I present (fresh from a similar argument elsewhere)
The Arkajaean Solution.
Step1) Declare a one off amnesty for all illegals (and their immediate/live in families) inside the US who can prove that they have lived there for 5 years or more. These people must then register with the tax department and either apply for citizenship or operate under the laws applying to foreigners living inside the US. Then start tracking down the rest who don't qualify, no more amnesties in future.
Step 2) Declare a single mandatory minimum wage for BOTH US citizens and non-US citizens, also give both equal or near equal rights in such things as employer provided insurance etc.. This eliminates the incentive for businesses to hire foreigners over American citizens. At the same time vastly increase the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants providing a disincentive.
Step 3) Increase border patrol budget to allow for proper surveillance and policing of border. It doesn't have to be the Great Wall of China, it just has to prevent any largescale movement and provide a genuine barrier to criminals.
Step 4) Announce bounty program, giving rewards to any person (US citizen or not) who provides information leading to the arrest of an illegal immigrant. All tip offs and payments can be kept anonymous.
Step 5) Bring in laws allowing local governments to seize assets in excess of $1000 USD acquired in the US by illegal immigrants.
Step 6) Create waystations for processing illegal immigrants, before returning them to their country of origin.
Now the beauty of this solution?
Lefties can't complain about the wages part, unless they want to argue against non-citizens getting higher wages. The only way they could do so would be to argue that non-citizens wages should be kept low, now the only people who would argue such are corporations/businesses etc. who exploit cheap labour etc.
That is the exact same people the PC whiners are usually whining about for giving miniscule wages to their employees.
Another beautiful thing about my suggestions is the Amnesty for all immigrants and their immediate families who have lived in the country 5 years or more.
Studies have repeatedly found that often the people MOST against further immigration are immigrant families themselves.
By making these people citizens, legitimising them and giving them security in the country one can most likely then rely on their support in the voting booths for measures to curb or stop further illegal immigration. Hows that for an enormous blow to the PC brigade?
As for my bounty deal you'll notice I mentioned US citizens AND non-US citizens, by doing such one can then have watchers SOUTH of the border, one can actually have Mexicans spying on Mexicans and turning their fellow countrymen in for the bounty.
Think of that border patrol deal those civillian types started up a while back (which was enormously successful) and now imagine that one had people on the Mexican side of the border doing just that for the bounties they could then recieve. People could even set up businesses hunting down illegals and collecting the bounties after reporting them to authorities.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
The Berlin Wall was far more to do with preventing emmigration rather than immigration. To seperate the US from Mexico with a wall would be nearly the equivalent of building a wall around Iraq to keep the insurgents from entering.I think the Soviets had the right idea in regards to the Berlin Wall.
Cowardice is to run from the fear;
Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
But to hold the line anyway.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Somebody had a good idea awhile back, where the US wouldn't give money to Mexico unless they tightened the borders excessively.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." - John Kenneth Galbraith
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Well I know that. I was just being facetious.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Talking as a LEGAL immigrant who gets to do all the hoop jumping:
It [snip] me off.
The people who employ illegals are [snip]. Take a small cut in your super high standard of living and employ a U.S. citizen/visa holder/green card holder you spoilt [snip].
Know what? when I was a kid (about 12 or so, which was in the 90s so it's not that long ago) we used to be paid a pitiful amount to bring in the harvest but it was fun; if you want cheap fruit and veg then employ school kids. Parents should be forced to encourage their kids to get a work ethic anyway because I'm so sick of all the lazy idiots who are U.S. citizens.
GAH!!!
EDIT by Ser Clegane: I would highly appreciate if the language here could be less "colourful"
Thanks
Last edited by Ser Clegane; 08-16-2005 at 10:45.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Like I said in the Conservative Club this maybe the biggest issue in the next elections. Already the Govenor of New Mexico, a democrat, said he will tighten the border. If either party can take the lead on this issue and show the amwerican public their serious they will win in a lanslide. Both parties are quilty of not listening to the people of their parties and are only intersted in the democrats case of expanding their base and in the republicans case getting cheap labor for buissines. I say lock down the border and deport those you find here. Why should we reward them for breaking our laws? Let them get on line just like everyone else. I like the plan where if they go back voluntarily you sort of put them to the top of the list and give them a work permit to work here.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
You realize of course this has been done once in completly by Ronald Regean. Regean granted a general immirgration amnesty back around 1985 if I remember correcty, and it has lead to some of the current immigration problems concerning illegals - especially since every administration since then has not attempt to enforce the immigration laws or man the border to prevent illegal crossings. Then one must address the states who when they do a traffic stop - find the illegal - do absolutely nothing to that illegal under those circumstances.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Governer Richardson has declared a state of emergency because of the violence and illegal crossings of the border between his state and Mexico
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/newmexico/
If Richardson is serious he can now deploy the New Mexico National Guard along the border to secure his state - which is allowed under the Regulations governing the Guard and the state's control over them.In announcing the state of emergency, Richardson -- a Democrat who served in President Clinton's Cabinet -- criticized the "total inaction and lack of resources from the federal government and Congress" in helping protect his state's residents along the border.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Yes an he is also likely to run in 2008. Heck if he did that even Id consider voting for him.If Richardson is serious he can now deploy the New Mexico National Guard along the border to secure his state - which is allowed under the Regulations governing the Guard and the state's control over them.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Its okay if he ran under the democratic ticket for President - I would vote for him also - he is a moderate conserative by his own policies.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Looks like hes not aloneGoverner Richardson has declared a state of emergency because of the violence and illegal crossings of the border between his state and Mexico
LINKNapolitano declares border emergency
Associated Press
Aug. 15, 2005 05:57 PM
Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano declared an emergency Monday in four border counties because of problems related to lax border enforcement and moved to provide local governments in those counties with up to $1.5 million in state funding.
Napolitano's order directly released $200,000 from the state's emergency fund for disasters while her emergency council released an additional $1.3 million, spokeswoman Jeanine L'Ecuyer said.
The money is intended for use by counties and municipalities for a variety of purposes, including overtime pay for law enforcement officers, repairs of border fences, costs related to illegal immigrants' deaths, L'Ecuyer said.
advertisement
Napolitano's action followed by three days a similar declaration by New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson.
Of course she governs just the opposite vetoing bills like the one requiring picture ID to vote and many others proposed by conservtives to address this issue.
Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Looks like some interesting politicial moves by two state governors on the border issue. It will be interesting to see if Texas and California does the same thing. However I don't think Arnold has he political clout in California to get away with his state in doing something like this.
Richardson is a very popular governor in New Mexico and can afford to do something like this as a politicial statement.
Don't know about the Arizona governor to much.
THe knucklehead here in Texas can't even get the House and Senate to pass a school tax budget - so I doubt he has the political clout to do something like this.
I wish all four would though - it would send a strong message to Washington that there is a severe problem along the border.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Illegal immigration is going to be the death of our fine nation.
We must stop it at all costs, no matter the amount of money it takes, or the human lives lost to stop it. The greater good for our nation is more important.
Why do you hate Freedom?
The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Make a line across the border if they cross that line they can be shot....Just make sure they know where it is and what it is for.
Formerly ceasar010
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
That's not right. They're still humans - catch them and deport them. Though I like Es Arkajae's solution a lot.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Oh so many ways that this statement is wrong. So your advocating the killing of men, women, and children because of the harmful actions of a small portion of the illegals that cross the border.
Yes get the border under control - but without going to a police state.
Then again think about what happens when you live on the border and cross that line - absolutely no way can this be a policy along the border.
Build a fence, provide more manpower for the Border Patrol - so that they can activitly patrol the border, get the National Guard to fill in until the Border Patrol is re-organized for accomplishing their mission the right way.
But do not shoot people because they attempt to come to this country in violation of immigration laws because they wish for a better life then their home countries can offer them.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
OK maybe killing them is a little heavy handed...but if we just send them back they will try again....we need to find a way to make them so scared they will not want to come here... but what?
Formerly ceasar010
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Shot to kill on the border happens a lot because of the other criminal activities along the border - the coyotoes running people across, the drug runners, and in some instance even gun runners. To have a shot kill policy - with a fair warning - also creates a danger to the law enforcement agencies who must patrol the border or respond to the criminal activities along the border.
Its a lose - lose scenerio either way you look at it.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Is the border patrol a subset of the coast guard? Or is it more like local cops?
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
If my memory serves me correctly it is a branch of the same governmental department that also controls some of the functions (if not all) of the Coast Guard. However after 9/11 they have renamed, reorganized and generally confused some of the chain of command/responsibility of different departments.
However I believe both fall under the US Customs Branch of Service.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/about/
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
I would vote Democrat as well if they had a real policy to keep the illegals out. Bush is doing poorly with this problem. I love immigrants and welcome all with open arms if they want to come here legally and become fellow Americans, as for the illegals, i wouldn't piss on them even if they were on fire...
RIP Tosa
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
It used to be part of the Immigration Service, but it is now under the Dept. of Homeland Security in a section called U.S. Customs and Border Protection. It has been a Federal force, not local.
Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
Put up tighter border controls. That is fair enough... we have even used the SAS here in Australia.
Have more specific useful immigration controls. Australia is advertising around the world at the moment for 20,000 extra skilled immigrants.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
I think too much is made of the distinction between "legal" and "illegal"-- I mean, if it were really illegal, we'd be enforcing it. Currently it's sort of like the make-believe 55mph speed limit we had for so many years.
When I lived and worked in Mexico I was totally mojado, I didn't even have a valid tourist visa, but granted that was a little different.
IMO what really needs to be done, instead of moralistically demonizing "illegals" (a distinction which currently has no real meaning), is to actually get a handle on the immigration situation and get a set of rules that people are going to enforce. Higher quotas for workers are definitely needed. Some amnesty deal should probably be worked out.
Once these aspects are taken care of, strict enforcement, penalization of offending employers, and deportations would definitely be necessary if the policy is going to have any meaning. If it is a serious policy, seriously enforced, it will have moral weight and people will respect it.
..
One other aspect that I think could really use some work would be an official recognition of Mexicans as a group and the role they play here, and the establishment of free english classes, information/counseling, etc. It would even be good to establish some sort of assistance program which would require participants to be learning and eventually pass a test in English-- thus pushing immigrants to learn English without the red tape of establishing it as an official language.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
DA
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
I read this statement on US immigration a while ago:
The indians did not restrict immigration, now they live in the reservations...
Most of the US posters here seems to forget who their ancestors where........
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
I personally think illegal immigrants are nothing but criminals, but they help business.. so im conflicted.
Re: Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.
They don't really help business.
They help businesses that are criminals. So criminal illegals help criminal businesses that hire them.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks