Your feeling on Illegal Immigration into the U.S.

[Del Arroyo]

GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cuts off head.

[Strike For The South]

10 foot high electric fence barbed wire on top guard post every half mile check points only at designated areas cut off aid to mexico that should do it

[Xiahou]

Has this poll been brought up yet?

WASHINGTON, Aug. 17 (UPI) -- Forty-six percent of Mexicans would like to move to the United States and more than 20 percent would do so illegally if they had the chance, a survey says.

link

Unbelievable really- almost half the population of Mexico wants to move to the US and more than a fifth would do so illegally given the chance??

[Strike For The South]

take the motherland back

[scooter_the_shooter]

My uncle told me a funny joke about the illegals.


He said "In every illegal there is an American wanting to get out....you just have to put the hole there" I said "what do you mean"? He said "you gotta shoot em'!


I thought it was pretty funny most of the politically correct crowd won't think so though

[Papewaio]

**pokes Idaho**

Umm does poke in the USA mean the same thing as in Aus?

[bmolsson]

One thing I would like to ask is:

How about illegal American immigrants in to Mexico ?

It seems like every criminal always tries to run away to Mexico. Is that the case or is that only in Hollywood productions ?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Umm does poke in the USA mean the same thing as in Aus?

Yes it does but were not talking about its sexual conotation here. At least I hope not as my name was also mentioned.

Unbelievable really- almost half the population of Mexico wants to move to the US and more than a fifth would do so illegally given the chance??

Yeah I heard it on Rush's show today. I was like OMG were in trouble.

[Papewaio]

You keep saying how good your country is... surely that will mean it is more attractive destination...

[Redleg]

My uncle told me a funny joke about the illegals.


He said "In every illegal there is an American wanting to get out....you just have to put the hole there" I said "what do you mean"? He said "you gotta shoot em'!


I thought it was pretty funny most of the politically correct crowd won't think so though

So are you and your uncle both xenophobic?

[AntiochusIII]

Hmm...I'm a legal immigrant of the United States (damn I hate being in Las Vegas and being too young to live on my own..duh..waiting to go the California, Ohio, or Maine someday...) and though I'm not emotional about the issue it is true that the influx of illegal immigrants creates LOTS of problems. The immigrants are forced to live in sub-standart social/economic position and therefore crime rate is increasing.

Perhaps the federal government has to intervene in the situation and try to force the Mexican government to take action in the many aspects that gives both motives and ways for possible illegal immigrants to enter the United States. In short version: Mexico...er...it's government and current condition...sucks. They are so corrupted, so troubled, so problematic that many naturally desire to left the country up towards "the better place". Their weak half-hearted attempt at stopping such influx of people means that the United States can only do so much.

To suggest something like building a wall seems xenophobic, desperate, and, somehow, that reminds me Israel-Palestine conflict.

[scooter_the_shooter]

We both have no problem with immigrants with green cards or visas etc.

We both dislike illegals very much(and a few legals) because of the tax breaks and other things they can get away with.


For example

Legals


Some people from a (some arab country) made a store in my home town. My uncle was talking to them about how they opened it up.


Sense they are immigrants they got a very good loan on it(and other benefits) that last 3 years. After it runs out they sell it to some one else in their family for the loan and so one

another one

There are colleges in the US funded by tax dollars dedicated to foreigners they will not let any one born in the USA in.

...................




Illegals

They can go to hospitals with out paying....I saw a thing on fox news.

The hospitals are required to help them and (most) cannot pay....so they get it for free basically....the hospitals lose money and have to shut down causing real american citizens to not have a hospital to go to.



All of those things make me very angry and any US citizen that it doesn't is crazy!

[AntiochusIII]

People make it sound as though the US Government goes to great pains to shove Immigrants into some kind of bad situation. The basic facts of the matter are that when you move to another country, you can't expect them to provide for you--especially when they come in such numbers as Mexicans. You have no more money than when you left your old place--heck, probably less due to exchange rates. It's not the governments fault, and the government should not be expected to provide for Immigrants. YOU came HERE. It's not a paradise, it's America.

Who did say so?

Don't look at me.

Edit: Oh, and Caesar, I believe you are perfectly entitled to your opinion but perhaps, when situation demands, one must forego the desire of vengeance, even righteous ones, and do good even if those who recieve the care may not deserve, or even abuse it? Such as healing the sick?

Speaking like this makes me want to watch an anime called "Fruit Basket."
warning: the show is not for the violent, the strong, and hippy-haters

Oh, and not all immigrants are like that, you know. You sound really xenophobic.

[Redleg]

People make it sound as though the US Government goes to great pains to shove Immigrants into some kind of bad situation. The basic facts of the matter are that when you move to another country, you can't expect them to provide for you--especially when they come in such numbers as Mexicans. You have no more money than when you left your old place--heck, probably less due to exchange rates. It's not the governments fault, and the government should not be expected to provide for Immigrants. YOU came HERE. It's not a paradise, it's America.

Oh but it is the governments fault for the situation - why do you ask.

Because the Federal Government has failed to enforce the law in regrads to immigration. The Federal Government has failed to coordinate the activities of all law enforcement agencies along the border to insure adequate border protection - along with a failure to do what the constitution states for the Federal Government to do in regards to the border. All because politicians want to get voted into office and stay into office. So in essence the Federal Government over the last 30 years has allowed the situation to get to the point that it is now.

[Es Arkajae]

More personal insults - someone is after a warning from the moderators I think

I accept your concession on this point.

If all you can do is try and cry foul to the moderators to try and bail you out of the hole you've dug for yourself then its fair to say that you've conceeded the argument in that regard.

Again with the insults - I see maybe I should respond in like manner? However again this comment only shows that you didn't like my comment - not that I did not read your post. Seems someone has a problem with arguing the position verus the person

What insult?, I called your comment stupid and I pointed out how, quit playing the martyr.

I accept your concession on this point too since all you seem able to do is cry instead of defend your arguments. You've had ample opportunity.

Oh the insults just keep coming - prove that I am lying about reading the whole post before posting. You can not show it. However you are showing that you have a problem with someone that disagrees with your position. There is a word for that - and since its often used incorrectly on this forum - you are providing a perfect examble of the true meaning of the word bigot.

I already have proven it, I have quoted the relevant passage TWICE the passage which makes no sense if you had read the rest of my post.

You're not doing so well are you?

Well since all of your measures other then the bounty concept are already establish laws - your vision is already been thought off by Regean.

Funny I don't recall my list being an exclusive list of legislation, I recall it being a plan to be implemented, if the best you can do is say "well some of those measures already exist in law books somewhere" well its inane isn't it.

LOL

Like I said you show poor research skills - all your points are already existing law.

Not at all - however you might want to first understand where the majority of the illegal immigrants work. On the west coast they are primary migrant workers travelling from California to Washington picking crops - ie no address, then the ones in the rural areas of the country work on farms where the rancher and farmer provide them with housing - again no address in their names, then the construction workers also follow the same migrantion pattern as the work. Only those in the service area might have an address - but even that is doubtful.

I'm well aware of where many seek employment, the fact that this is common knowledge should make proper enforcement and implementation of my plan rather simple in that regard.

And you bring up the housing issue no doubt for the 'proof of 5yrs residence' matter again, and once again it is irrelevent, it is the illegals problem to find proof, not the government, if they can't then tough.

However if you want me to be uncivil and argue the person verus the issue - I can be much worse. Your just a little child compared to some of the individuals I have had little battles with. Hell Idaho and Tribesman would present a worthy challenge at insults for me - your just a little child compared to them.

Oh 'battles'!, and 'insults'! , this coming from the guy who has spent the last few posts of his in this thread crying for help from the mods to bail him out of the hole he keeps digging deeper for himself.

LOL - that is the difference - I know what these people go through to get into the United States. And its up to the government to prove the case against them before they deport them. That is the nature of innocent until proven guilty. I see someone is in favor of suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus just to deport illegal immigrants

Spare us the sob story, they're either in the country illegally or not.

When you do actually manage to come up with on-topic counter-arguments isn't it amazing how they all seem to be based on nothing more than emotional heart string pulling.

You haven't seen me backpeddle yet - your other four points like I stated were not worth discussing after the first one. Hell only two people on this board have ever gotten me to backpeddle - again see how Tribesman or Adrian have argued issues with me - and Adrian is the only one that has come close to getting me to back peddle.

Redleg, I am completely uninterested in your supposed past 'achievements', they mean nothing to me, it seems you're more interested in appealing to what you think is your 'reputation' then actually arguing the matter at hand.

Your opinion - however it seems you didn't realize Regean granted an amnestity that covered a five year period like your initial suggestion - which was exactly my first post.

I'm well aware that amnesties have been granted before, thats why I made it clear in my initial post that the amnesty I propose would be a once off affair with no more to follow.

Once again your laziness in not reading before replying has come back to bite you.

I noticed you highlighted the exact point I made. Very good - your not as idiotic as I first assumed.

I'll be accepting your concession on this point too, if you can't even remain internally consistent...

Not at all since I advocate the enforcement of the already established laws.

So do I, what has that got to do with your so far flimsy argument against my multi-step plan for fronting the problem?

the Federal government has not been concerned about working the issues along the border - they never have - that is way the current laws need to be enforced - not new ones on the books. Its amazing you still don't get it - all of your points except for the bounty are already on the books.

And???, I'm sorry were you trying to make a point?

I never claimed my solution was all 100% original, it combines several good ideas into a concrete list of things to do to tackle the problem.

I get the impression that you don't even have a concrete objection to my plan. Rather I think you just read the first point, ignored the rest and then posted your nonsensical post and upon being brought up on this you've been backpeddling and trying to baffle everyone with some kind of chewbacca defence ever since.

Sure and in big letters to help you understand - the Federal Government has never enforced the current laws to the extend that the legislation states for the government to do, the Federal Government does not enforce the laws because it will cost votes in the next election

Glad to see you agree with my scorn of the "we take it seriously" comment.

Sure - an open and pourous border that has been open since the foundation of the United States. A set of immigrantion laws that have never been enforced by the Federal Government along the southern border because of a fear of losing the hispanic vote.

Also glad to see you've noticed the problem, my solution would work wonders on it.

It also rather shoots down your "stuff is already being done!11" nonsense.

Someone needs to take their own advice on this point.

A big difference - for instance Texas is about 50% Hispanic - care to see how overloaded the system will become when over 5,000,000 people who are citizens are being arrested and released because of bad information.

Why would you arrest someone who could prove that they're a US citizen with something as simple as a state drivers license or social security card?

Again most illegals don't have bank accounts - because they are paid in cash and do not have social security numbers.

Any assets in excess of $1000 to local authorities, what about this don't you understand?

You might want to actually read the link - there is mention of internment camps and penalties

It is not my job to do your research for you, give me direct links to pertinent information if you want it to be read.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection has full authority to assess penalties and liquidated damages claims, seize merchandise for violation of CBP laws or those of other federal agencies that are enforced by CBP, remit forfeitures, mitigate penalties, decide petitions, and cancel claims. Seizures and Penalties include the establishment of National policies and procedures for processing fines, penalties, and forfeiture cases. The processing and disposition of these cases are strictly governed by laws, regulations, and mitigation guidelines designed to afford the claimant the greatest possible due process. The publications within this section provide the public with the information necessary for compliance.

Wow~!, a mission statement! and?...

I don't see local authorities confiscating assets, I don't see massive internment camps for processing the millions of illegals in the US.

My point exactly - enforce the current laws

Thats 'a' point, its not an argument against my solution which is not just a list of laws to be invoked, it also includes how to go about it and take sinto account political realities.

Once again you don't have any real counter-argument, you're making stuff up on the fly after I called you on your earlier ignorance.

The United States has land borders with multiple points of entry. Comparing Australia's illegal or legal immigrantion policies with the United States is comparing Apples to Oranges - both are fruits - but they are different types of fruit.

I don't recall comparing the two respective systems as a whole at all, I do recall pointing out the disincentive provided by detention centres which is completely 'apples and apples'.

Deliberatly misreading your opponents argument and then arguing against that misreading is rather lame of you redleg.

Again shows a lack of knowledge of how open the United States border is, and how many people try to get into this country every year.

I believe I mentioned the number of illegals in the US already, I'm well aware of how large the influx is, and the US is the worlds most powerful country, to suggest that it cannot protect its own southern border is laughable.

[Redleg]

Deleted by me because in interest of calming the discussion down a tad.

[Redleg]

Just for the record Es Arkajae You actually made a big deal over nothing especially by making it personal verus sitting down and actually reading what was written. You assumed that I did not read your post completely - and then decided to go on a little personal attack. Notice the two statements next to each other.

Step1) Declare a one off amnesty for all illegals (and their immediate/live in families) inside the US who can prove that they have lived there for 5 years or more. These people must then register with the tax department and either apply for citizenship or operate under the laws applying to foreigners living inside the US. Then start tracking down the rest who don't qualify, no more amnesties in future.

You realize of course this has been done once in completly by Ronald Regean. Regean granted a general immirgration amnesty back around 1985 if I remember correcty, and it has lead to some of the current immigration problems concerning illegals - especially since every administration since then has not attempt to enforce the immigration laws or man the border to prevent illegal crossings. Then one must address the states who when they do a traffic stop - find the illegal - do absolutely nothing to that illegal under those circumstances.

Notice that you went on a personal attack on a post that was not even a criticism of your point. Just a statement that the Amnesty program has been attempt before and did not work in the past, and that local law enforcement must also particpate in any enforcement.

However believe what you will - it seems however that its not me with the problem in this case.

[Es Arkajae]

Just for the record Es Arkajae You actually made a big deal over nothing especially by making it personal verus sitting down and actually reading what was written. You assumed that I did not read your post completely - and then decided to go on a little personal attack. Notice the two statements next to each other.


Notice that you went on a personal attack on a post that was not even a criticism of your point. Just a statement that the Amnesty program has been attempt before and did not work in the past, and that local law enforcement must also particpate in any enforcement.

However believe what you will - it seems however that its not me with the problem in this case.

You responded to my article countered one of my points implying it wouldn't work and then displayed the fact that you clearly hadn't in fact read the entire post in question. It was discourteus in the extreme and your subsequent base denials, fabrications and ploys to try and wiggle off the hook were disreputable.

I think some people need to develop some skin if they genuinely think any of my statements in this thread have been in any way 'out of line'. I don't think you really did and you just played to the stultified atmosphere enforced here as a ploy to end the argument. My comments were no more and probably less straightforward then what anyone would encounter in a genuine debate in real life. An inability to deal with straightforwardness and honesty in a debate is not a virtue.

I've made my case and proven A) That your earlier 'counter' was irrelevent to the point I made which was part of a larger plan and B) That you didn't even bother to read that plan before responding. All your recent posts have been driving these truths home.

I consider this matter now closed.

I wish you well Redleg.

[Redleg]

You responded to my article countered one of my points implying it wouldn't work and then displayed the fact that you clearly hadn't in fact read the entire post in question. It was discourteus in the extreme and your subsequent base denials, fabrications and ploys to try and wiggle off the hook were disreputable.

And again you would be incorrect in your assumption about what I did or didn't do in regards to your initial post.

I think some people need to develop some skin if they genuinely think any of my statements in this thread have been in any way 'out of line'. I don't think you really did and you just played to the stultified atmosphere enforced here as a ploy to end the argument. My comments were no more and probably less straightforward then what anyone would encounter in a genuine debate in real life. An inability to deal with straightforwardness and honesty in a debate is not a virtue.

When you make personal attacks verus arguing the position you violate the forum rules. You must play within the boundries established by the moderators and owners of the forum.

I've made my case and proven A) That your earlier 'counter' was irrelevent to the point I made which was part of a larger plan and B) That you didn't even bother to read that plan before responding. All your recent posts have been driving these truths home.

Again you would be incorrect in my opinion - but don't let that interfer with your reasoning.

I consider this matter now closed.

The matter was closed when you incorrectly made an assumption about my reasoning or my post.

I wish you well Redleg.

And you should have a good day also.