Terrorist 'Spiritual' Leader Gets Sentence Reduced

**Papewaio** · 08-17-2005, 07:33

... which is judges shaking hands with militia, and terrorists being taken out to starbucks by police chiefs... a very thin veneer of justice.

**bmolsson** · 08-17-2005, 07:51

Originally Posted by Papewaio

... which is judges shaking hands with militia, and terrorists being taken out to starbucks by police chiefs... a very thin veneer of justice.

This is not something exclusive for Indonesia. Idiots in uniform are evenly spread around the world....

**Papewaio** · 08-17-2005, 07:56

This goes a bit beyond incompetence. This is agreement:

Bali bomber spotted having coffee in mall

Ali Imron, the so-called repentant bomber sentenced to life imprisonment for his part in the attacks which claimed more than 200 lives, was spotted having coffee at Starbucks with the director of Indonesian narcotics and drugs Brigadier-General Gorries Mere.

East Timor militia leader faces Indon court over abuses

Guterres was deputy commander of the militia groups, set up by Jakarta ostensibly to maintain security in the province.

He was also the flamboyant chief of the Aitarak militia gang based in capital Dili who threatened four days before the vote that the town would be turned into a "sea of fire" if independence was declared.

With the overwhelming vote to secede, East Timor was ransacked by militia and more than 1,000 people were killed.

Prosecutors today claimed Guterres incited an attack on the home of independence leader Manuel Carrascalao, where 136 refugees were sheltering on April 17, 1999.

Carrascalao's adopted teenage son was among 12 who died in the attack.

must be killed," he was accused of telling his supporters in a scene at the governor's office that was widely televised, Yusuf said.

But absent from the charges was any reference to allegations by East Timorese human rights group Yayasan HAK that Guterres led an attack which resulted in a massacre in the town of Liquica in the same month.

Under the Dutch-based Indonesian legal system, Guterres, who is not in detention, was not required to enter a plea.

Afterwards, Guterres, wearing a scarf with Indonesia's national colours of red and white, approached the members of the bench, all of whom agreed to shake his hand.

**bmolsson** · 08-17-2005, 11:26

Originally Posted by Papewaio

This goes a bit beyond incompetence. This is agreement:

Bali bomber spotted having coffee in mall

He was a key withness against other bombers and a trust was built up. Surely this is bad taste, but this is something common in several western nations, where you do deals with criminals to get other criminals. By the way, the police chief that did this, got in to trouble over it so it didn't just pass.

Originally Posted by Papewaio

East Timor militia leader faces Indon court over abuses

This is a tricky one. Crimes where committed in East Timor, which no longer is Indonesian territory, meaning Indonesian authorities no longer have jurisdiction there. Furthermore, all militias and rebels where granted some kind of amnesty, which would include this guy.
This guy is a small time gangster, that have got far to much media on his side in Indonesia.
You have to remember that the Fretilini guerilla was seen as a terrorist organisation and wasn't very nice to the civilians that didn't support them. Several of the guerilla members are today government officials in Timor Leste and are not being arrested or intimidated when entering Indonesia. It works two ways.
This has of course created a rather rough situation for anyone that wants to prosecute them.

Another small note. In Sweden we have 3 murderers participating as actors in a play. When the first play was given on a large Swedish theater, they run away robbed some banks and killed some cops. That even beat the cup of coffee above in my book......

**Adrian II** · 08-17-2005, 12:50

Originally Posted by Papewaio

This goes a bit beyond incompetence. This is agreement:

Bali bomber spotted having coffee in mall

I believe you are jumping to conclusions here. Imron has been repentent from day one of his detention, he has apologised over and over to the victims of the bombing and promised to work with police as best he could. He was brought to Jakarta to assist Gorries' anti-terror police unit with their inquiries and that, apparently, is why Gorries took him outside for a cuppa. A change of scenery is know to help suspects or witnesses to recall events, names and places that would otherwise elude their memory. This looks like basic police work, my friend, and if there is any agreement between the two, it is probably about the need to prevent more bombings.

**Red Harvest** · 08-17-2005, 16:35

Say what you want, but everything I've seen indicates the Indonesian military and police forces give tacit approval to the extremists. Indonesian efforts seem to be limited to doing the bare minimum to maintain order where they want it. They didn't want it in East Timor for example.

The Indonesian judicial system is a farce.

**Redleg** · 08-17-2005, 16:41

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

The Indonesian judicial system is a farce.

The same thing can be said about many countries judicial systems. If you got enough money for instance in the United States - you can get a non-conviction on a murder charge. And if you don't have enough money - you can get convicted of a murder charge even when you are innocent.

Be very careful of calling another country's system a farce when your nation has its own judicial problems.