An other "Next TotalWar Game" thread

**econ21** · 08-17-2005, 16:42

If the next TW game is going to use the RTW engine, as has been reported, I would imagine that it will be in a largely pre-gunpowder era. However, given that they have covered the ancient and medieval era, it's not obvious to me what era is left.

I hope CA don't move into fantasy, because - despite the complaints - I think they make the most fun historical wargames around. (They aim at mass market strategy games, but IMO are historical wargamers at heart and leave enough of the hardcore stuff in their games to satisfy that niche, at least after modding).

**Ianofsmeg16** · 08-17-2005, 16:55

Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

If the next TW game is going to use the RTW engine, as has been reported, I would imagine that it will be in a largely pre-gunpowder era. However, given that they have covered the ancient and medieval era, it's not obvious to me what era is left.

I hope CA don't move into fantasy, because - despite the complaints - I think they make the most fun historical wargames around. (They aim at mass market strategy games, but IMO are historical wargamers at heart and leave enough of the hardcore stuff in their games to satisfy that niche, at least after modding).

What about Napoleonic times, that can and is being implemented on the RTW engine, all they'd need to do was get the gunpowder animations which is basically just smoke, then ta da!

For fun reasons, i want a World War: Total War, it would be awesome, but hard to make.

**econ21** · 08-17-2005, 17:06

Originally Posted by ian_of_smeg16

What about Napoleonic times, that can and is being implemented on the RTW engine, all they'd need to do was get the gunpowder animations which is basically just smoke, then ta da!

Yeah, I guess. The "Lords" modders did it with MTW afterall. The Napoleonic era is certainly the most obvious era for another TW game, in terms of the suitability of the strategic situation - multiple Great Powers - and mass appeal. The commerical waters have been muddied a little by Cossacks 2 and Imperial Glory, although neither can hold a candle to a TW game IMO.
Being my favoriate era, I'd be happy to see the Napoleonic era selected.

But I rather fear that a Napoleonic Total War would be very ahistorical - with a RTW engine, I suspect battles would degenerate into rapid, melee scrummages. In reality, formation was everything and death by bayonet accounted for something like less than 1% of fatalities. If these fears are realised, I guess modders might be able to tweak it into something more historical.

**Ianofsmeg16** · 08-17-2005, 19:20

Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

Yeah, I guess. The "Lords" modders did it with MTW afterall. The Napoleonic era is certainly the most obvious era for another TW game, in terms of the suitability of the strategic situation - multiple Great Powers - and mass appeal. The commerical waters have been muddied a little by Cossacks 2 and Imperial Glory, although neither can hold a candle to a TW game IMO.
Being my favoriate era, I'd be happy to see the Napoleonic era selected.

But I rather fear that a Napoleonic Total War would be very ahistorical - with a RTW engine, I suspect battles would degenerate into rapid, melee scrummages. In reality, formation was everything and death by bayonet accounted for something like less than 1% of fatalities. If these fears are realised, I guess modders might be able to tweak it into something more historical.

Yeah, they should bring back Historical Campaigns, then one of them could be you acting out as Richard Sharpe fighting in the Penninsular war!

Also i thing the Lordz have cracked gunpowder for RTW aswell
Another thing i'd like to see...a more personalised feel to the units, basically just being able to name units "the Scots Greys" or the Famous "78th Highlanders" not just Line infantry or Heavy cavalry all the time

A Knights of honour-style camp map, with different levels
Level 1: Overview of the World: Huge map but only has province details and cities on it
Level 2: Continent Map: RTW Map at the moment, more detailed than lvl 1 with armies, spies and diplomats etc.
Level 3 : Country Map: Extremely detailed map with villages, towns and cities that all play a different role in running your country, also add Churches, farmhouses and Manor houses (another thing from KOH) onto this level
Battle map: Battle maps should be un-restricted or at least huge, ecompassing everything you see on level 3 into the battle map e.g. If you Can see Plymouth, Dartmoor and the severn estuary on Level 3 then all of that should be incorperated

Far more complex diplomacy system, e.g. Denmark would no just Spontainiously attack Britain if they had an alliance, it would ally with say France, wait for Britain to attack france then slowly break ff from britain.

Just my thoughts...anyone agree?

**Afro Thunder** · 08-17-2005, 19:39

If they do make a WWI or WWII Total War game, we'd better have turns that last a shorter amount of time than 6 months. Imagine, just 12 turns and the war is already over!

**bodidley** · 08-17-2005, 19:55

The effectiveness of firepower and its accuracy at varying ranges, plus the effects of cavalry and artillery, add in a splash of misconceptions, and you have some serious balancing problems for the Napoleonic era. It would be difficult to effectively simulate any game with the Total War engine in an era where seeing a target means hitting a target, so World War games are unlikely. I'm not so sure most Total War fans would take to a fantasy game, or that CA could compete with the LOTR games. An early gunpowder game, say 1450-1700, might work well with the engine. A "Shogun II" or a "Medieval II" might not be entirely out of the question either.

**RTW King** · 08-17-2005, 20:15

I don't think WW One: Total War would work. If you didn't want to be accurate and sit and watch soldiers sitting in trenches, you would have 60 tanks charging the 100 enemy riflemen, or your machine gunners marching up to the enemy in formation then opening up fire on each other.

As much as it would be funny, I don't think it would work on a total war engine.

**The Stranger** · 08-17-2005, 20:19

yeah i'd like that but to keep the TW spirit up we should get a Thebe's total war and a Hyksos invasion followed by Neantherthaler Total war followed by a Homo Sapiens Invasion but a WWI TW would be cool. but no fantasy please

**IliaDN** · 08-17-2005, 20:22

Originally Posted by RTW King

I don't think WW One: Total War would work. If you didn't want to be accurate and sit and watch soldiers sitting in trenches, you would have 60 tanks charging the 100 enemy riflemen, or your machine gunners marching up to the enemy in formation then opening up fire on each other.

As much as it would be funny, I don't think it would work on a total war engine.

Agreed.

**Nelson** · 08-17-2005, 20:59

Originally Posted by bodidley

An early gunpowder game, say 1450-1700, might work well with the engine. A "Shogun II" or a "Medieval II" might not be entirely out of the question either.

I agree but I would push the time up to 1850 or so. Rifled weapons wouldn’t suit TW at all. Once firepower is lethal enough to inhibit mounted cavalry action, a popular aspect of the games will disappear. Anything up to the mid 19th century might work. Massed rifled musketry is the end of the line for shock. Smooth bore muskets still permit charges and melee. I’d like to see the 30 Years War, ECW era.

Wouldn't it be fun to assault or defend a Vauban style fortress using TW? How cool would that be?

Of course, an updated Shogun could never fail to please.

**The Stranger** · 08-17-2005, 21:07

yeah i agree with nelson.....but i still dream of a WoWaTW

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 08-17-2005, 21:13

I agree with the general "poo-pooing" of a fantasy choice.

The problem with most such games is that they degenerate into a total rock-paper-scissors model of fighting. *TW tends that way, but has just enough reality blended in to keep it from being too "perfect."

On the other hand, I'd love to see CA open up the AI to modding -- even if they forced modders to clear it through them before releasing it. I suspect that the talent pool available here, in RTR, and EB would provide a lot of value in this context.

As to another in the TW series, I think you could do: Early Gunpowder, Napoleonic, Crimean War, South American Rebellion, and even US Civil War renditions within the basic framework of the engine. While one person noted that the rifled muskets of the US civil war made cavalry pretty secondary -- true -- they still fought in formations rather than in the open order that characterized subsequent conflicts. The formation component is critical to the engine.

If you want WW2 stuff, play Advanced Squad Leader. Mastering the rules shouldn't take more than a month or two.

SF