Why do mercenaries suck?

**Martok** · 08-20-2005, 19:30

Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi

Yes, I know all about ransom. Not sure what the long post about Agincourt had to do with Mercs sucking in MTW, but anyway. Oh, and the documentary you refer to was on UK telly a year or 2 ago, and it got slaughtered on the boards here. I remember one post by Frogbeastegg that comprehensively tore apart the program and summed it up. It can be found here

Edit: Found link

Heh. I just checked out that thread. I have to admit, it was pretty fun watching Froggy systematically dismantle every single part of their argument. That show must have made her furious!

**ichi** · 08-20-2005, 19:40

I have noticed some behavior that seemed inconsistent with my expectations; I've seen 0 valor mercs under a low command rank general break a lot sooner than they should have, but I've also seen mercs fight down to the last couple of men.

My explanation has something to do with individual unit characteristics, something like a vice, but I've never gathered any hard evidence, just anecdotal observations.

ichi

**Patron** · 08-20-2005, 19:58

Mercenaries are a cheap way to pwnz0r everything at the beginning of the game. Just blitz every province and build an inn and get out as many khwarazimian cavalry and italian infantry as you can to sweep aside the urban milita and spearmen of your enemies. As the Aragonese in early expert I once managed to conquer france and western germany by around 1120. As the game progresses though, the advantage they give you is lessenned and their expense suddenly becomes more of an issue. It is best not to buy too many and keep them conquerring early on, so when it seems the merc rush is dying down you are left with units of 20 elites who are worth their pay.

**frogbeastegg** · 08-20-2005, 20:06

:looks about the Main Hall: Hmm, a bit quieter, but everything else is still the same as I remember it. Not posted in here in ages; barely even read the place for longer. But then I've only recently started to play MTW again, albeit in a very idle '1 turn a week' sort of way.

Link

That was before I learned the finer points of writing, and if I remember correctly I was in something of a hurry as I wrote it. It shows. Gah!

Heh. I just checked out that thread. I have to admit, it was pretty fun watching Froggy systematically dismantle every single part of their argument. That show must have made her furious!

I have a real dislike for these kind of so called history programs like this. I've seen many worse, and there were some good ones, but the profusion of crappy, infuriating documentaries is why I gave up watching any of them well over half a year ago. I stick to reading my history books now; they can easily outdo even the better documentaries by the simple fact of being a book, and therefore able to go into plenty of detail, give evidence and references, take as long as is needed to cover the subject well, and (if you choose the right books) do not need some controversial idea to centre the whole thing about. I can't stand inaccurate or plain daft 'history' being handed out; people beleive it, then it takes years of fighting for the misconceptions to be dismissed and mended. The damage that can do to the subject is ... painful.

To address the point of the thread, I've never seen anything about mercenaries being weaker in any way than ordinary troops. But it's been something like a year and a half since I last played the game, so how much the frog's word is worth is anyone's guess. I do recall other people making this same complaint though, but I think always another cause was found.

**Martok** · 08-20-2005, 22:58

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

[edit]

To address the point of the thread, I've never seen anything about mercenaries being weaker in any way than ordinary troops. But it's been something like a year and a half since I last played the game, so how much the frog's word is worth is anyone's guess. I do recall other people making this same complaint though, but I think always another cause was found.

Hey FBE, good to see you again! Been a while since I've seen you in this part of the forum.

Well using using mercs *are* pretty hit-and-miss, at least for me. I should (in the spirit of honesty) admit that mercs have failed me at the exact wrong moment almost as often as they've saved me. You never know for sure how well they'll stand up in an actual combat situation. It's caused me to sometimes wonder if they're coded with a "random-morale factor" or something.....

**Emerald Wolf** · 08-21-2005, 00:37

That would make alot of sense. I never really had a problem with the Mercs but I have notice they are a bit... well... inconsisten. The random morale thing would make a lot of sense, in that being of a transient nature, even thier mood would be more prone to change rapidly.

**Deus Ex** · 08-21-2005, 00:46

I just try to make sure I give them a decent Genral - using 0 valour mercs without a decent general never seems to go very well for me... heh heh

so I stopped

DE

**antisocialmunky** · 08-21-2005, 00:55

I loved your post Froggy as this program aired in America several months ago. Documentaries have been getting more and more 'jumpy' and retarded. Honestly, the aparent need to 'rediscover' history and change assumptions that may or may not be correct is retarded. Especially when profound alterations to history are proved in 30 minutes.

I rather respected alot of the British Documentaries that get shown on History Channel, but this made me sad at the base stupidity involved. I mean, it's a British documentary, it's supposed to be smart!

Hell, I think Armageddon was more scientific that that thing.

**Emerald Wolf** · 08-21-2005, 01:58

I really love the HIstory channel... I'm not much of a TV person, but HC does it for me. Unfortunately it seems that they run about the same 15 episodes of 5 shows for the last year. I mean... there's only so many times in 3 months one can see a "special" on the Nazi Gold Train. After the first 6 times it's not special anymore. I would love it if they dod a little bit more of new programming.

**Budwise** · 08-21-2005, 02:00

Hey, I didn't say it was a 100% accurate or even worth watching. But it did spawn the idea to study the battle further. The only reason why I posted it was because it seemed that the whole battle was based around Ransom and I found that maybe it would help with a point or two.

Ever since I was a kid learning how to read, I would rather get my information through a book or now the new hightech books - the internet - instead of the History Channel or other programming.

It just was interesting, thats all.

**m52nickerson** · 08-21-2005, 03:10

If mercs are good for one thing, its getting a few units that you normally could not get. Example, Longbowmen are good merc groups, they tend to stay out of combat so they build valor and live a long time. Siege weapons are also good, that way if they get tore up, you don't have to wait two years to build another one.