Point in Clans?

[TosaInu]

How many of the 'good' players 'ruined' a whole game when they started playing MP?

Jochi

Players who are good now, are still able to ruin games.

[Lord Adherbal]

4 individually weak players who work as a team will beat 4 starplayers that don't.

anyone who's capable of good teamplay isn't "weak" imo. And the other way round is true for "starplayers"

'will' ?? How is any 'newcomer' (I detest the term 'noob') expected to learn.
Everyone started at the bottom of the ladder. How many of the 'good' players 'ruined' a whole game when they started playing MP?

a "noob" is a bad player, usualy with a bad mouth aswell, who refuses to listen to more experienced players. There is nothing wrong with beginners, but if they charge of toward 3 opponents while their teammates are still grouping together and telling the guy to come back - which he doesnt - then this beginner can officially be classified as a "noob" and just ruined a game.

[TosaInu]

Agreed: what is weak, what is strong?

The tiger will tear you apart in the jungle, the shark will eat you in the sea and the bird is singing his song high in the tree.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

There are many players out there that are far better players from learning how to play before coming to MP. Why do so many have no inclination to join a clan?

I have never seen a player come from sp and be good right away at MP.

Agreed: what is weak, what is strong?

Its realative as to whos playing. If in a 4 on 4 .7 players are equal and one is weaker rest assured a good team will find that weakness.

4 individually weak players who work as a team will beat 4 starplayers that don't.

Isnt this what clans are about?

Again Im speaking of BAD players like those [cF]Adherbal was speaking of. In those cases the games over before it begins. I guy who takes all v0 units and no range units has pretty much condemned you to loose before the battle even starts.

[TosaInu]

I have never seen a player come from sp and be good right away at MP.

How good? I've met new players who were pretty good (no they were not undercover pretenders).

Its realative as to whos playing. If in a 4 on 4 .7 players are equal and one is weaker rest assured a good team will find that weakness.

When one is certain of his victory, he already lost

Isnt this what clans are about?

Not necessarily, irrelevant and I was thinking about both teams being established clans. A clan consisting of 4 'avarage' players can easily beat a clan consisting of 4 1v1 champions. In other words: the latter team has individually strong players, but their teamplay is weaker.

Two or more strangers can meet for the first time and turn out to be compatible. Bye bye seasoned clan vets.


More seriously, though I'm not entirely kidding, the statement I reacted to is:

You are only as good as your weakest team mate.

This is simply not true, no matter what both teams are composed of.

-Individually weaker, but better as a team.
-1 weakest link and 3 strong players that know about the weakest links weakness and adjust the battleplan, so the weakness becomes a strong point.

It's so easy to blame a team defeat on one guy, especially if this is a new player. It's a teamgame, not x 1v1. When the new guy didn't move in fast enough, then you were too far ahead.


I recognise the cases [cF]Adherbal is talking about. Again, adjust the battle plan to the weakest link and become a strong team. The 'noob' is your ally, not another enemy. It's no use to abandon hope, start fuming or criticise his army composition or even his moves during the battle. You can try some brief requests, don't overwhelm him with 'you must do this and that and such and so, NO, STOP, RUN, WAIT, LEFT, WHEEL RIGHT, Double Echelon!!!'. Keep it simple, those first impressions are overwhelming enough.


More than one game I've been in has been ruined by 'no-noobs' (no accidents or bad luck: just spoiled). I'am talking about breaking agreements, far less than gentleman behaviour, escaping, swearing, bad sports, after match public foyer spanking, blaming allies, gross exploiting of loopholes.

[Orda Khan]

Wise words as always, Tosa.
The need to 'pwn' ones opponent/opponents is ( IMO ) the greatest reason for MP battles to deteriorate and ( again IMO ) hey have done so since MTW.

The term 'noob' is an insult and helps not one bit the cause of the MP side of this game.

Some of my most enjoyable games have been when a new player has joined. We may not have won a resounding victory but hopefully the 'noob' enjoyed his experience enough to continue playing Total War.......as indeed I did myself some years ago

.....Orda

[Craterus]

How good? I've met new players who were pretty good (no they were not undercover pretenders).



When one is certain of his victory, he already lost



Not necessarily, irrelevant and I was thinking about both teams being established clans. A clan consisting of 4 'avarage' players can easily beat a clan consisting of 4 1v1 champions. In other words: the latter team has individually strong players, but their teamplay is weaker.

Two or more strangers can meet for the first time and turn out to be compatible. Bye bye seasoned clan vets.


More seriously, though I'm not entirely kidding, the statement I reacted to is:


This is simply not true, no matter what both teams are composed of.

-Individually weaker, but better as a team.
-1 weakest link and 3 strong players that know about the weakest links weakness and adjust the battleplan, so the weakness becomes a strong point.

It's so easy to blame a team defeat on one guy, especially if this is a new player. It's a teamgame, not x 1v1. When the new guy didn't move in fast enough, then you were too far ahead.


I recognise the cases [cF]Adherbal is talking about. Again, adjust the battle plan to the weakest link and become a strong team. The 'noob' is your ally, not another enemy. It's no use to abandon hope, start fuming or criticise his army composition or even his moves during the battle. You can try some brief requests, don't overwhelm him with 'you must do this and that and such and so, NO, STOP, RUN, WAIT, LEFT, WHEEL RIGHT, Double Echelon!!!'. Keep it simple, those first impressions are overwhelming enough.


More than one game I've been in has been ruined by 'no-noobs' (no accidents or bad luck: just spoiled). I'am talking about breaking agreements, far less than gentleman behaviour, escaping, swearing, bad sports, after match public foyer spanking, blaming allies, gross exploiting of loopholes.

These are wise words indeed.

I have found myself to work better with some random players, than with some of my fellow clan-members. It's related to how you fight battles and the way you think.

[Sjakihata]

These are wise words indeed.

I have found myself to work better with some random players, than with some of my fellow clan-members. It's related to how you fight battles and the way you think.

We must fix that - from now on you'll have to play 2 hours EVERY day with me

[Gawain of Orkeny]

The term 'noob' is an insult and helps not one bit the cause of the MP side of this game.

Well I dont. I think of it as a new or unskilled player. One who dosent even know how to group hid units. I need no lectures from any of you on this as Ive probably trained more "noobs" than anyone here. In fact I relish doing so. All im saying is its frustrating to spend half an hour in the lobby getting a 4 on 4 together and finding out one guy is clueless as to how to play or just doesnt listen to his team mates. Its not like in the old days when you just jumped into the next game. Thankfully you dont find many such people in VI anymore as most are either vets or have played MTW for sometime. The worst is when you try to help someone and they cop an attitude.