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Thread: Democracy or Communism?

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Smile Democracy or Communism?

    What do you prefer?!

    Democracy or Communism?!

    I thought about this and even the evil communism has some advantages. Criminality rate, for example, was much reduced in communist countries because of the strong fist that the police had.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Strange question - actually - ideally - Communism and Democracy should not be mutually exclusive.

    Considering the answer you give, your question should rather be
    "Democracy or Dictatorship" shouldn't it?

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Yeah. Let's make it this way.
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    Scandinavian and loving it Member Lazul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Since the question is Democracy vs Dictorship i have to go with Democracy.

    I like to think for myself and say and write what I want!
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    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    I thought about this and even the evil communism has some advantages. Criminality rate, for example, was much reduced in communist countries because of the strong fist that the police had.[/QUOTE]

    If you don't mind the whole communist party beeing a band of criminals themselves, of course...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Bit of a dumb question. Who is going to choose a dictatorship?
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

  7. #7
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    communism doesn't mean dictatorship, or is my Engrish really that bad?

    i choose a pseudo-communism democracy.

  8. #8
    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Bit of a dumb question. Who is going to choose a dictatorship?
    Everyone would choose a dictatorship as long as they got to be the dictator.
    Cowardice is to run from the fear;
    Bravery is not to never feel the fear.
    Bravery is to be terrified as hell;
    But to hold the line anyway.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho
    Who is going to choose a dictatorship?
    People who turn to the Dark Side and have their dialogue written by George Lucas

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    "'elp! I'm bein' repressed!" Senior Member Aenlic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Many people are lazy when it comes to such things. It is much easier, and less stressful, to let someone else think for them. As long as they are told things that are easier to believe than the truth, then it is relatively easy to control the mob. Why do dictators even bother to hold so-called elections? It's all part of the process of controlling the masses who willingly let others do the hard work of thinking about politics. How do you suppose people like Hitler become Chancellor in the first place. It's just easier to let it happen then not. It's easier to believe the pablum being fed to them than to think for themselves.

    And democracy, by itself, doesn't stop it from happening. Apathy can bring on dictatorships. When most of the people don't even bother to engage in the process, not wanting to be bothered or just not caring, then they've already given up their only real power. When the majority doesn't even bother to vote at all, in a democracy, then the wolves come out to play with the sheep.
    "Dee dee dee!" - Annoymous (the "differently challenged" and much funnier twin of Anonymous)

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
    Everyone would choose a dictatorship as long as they got to be the dictator.
    But I wouldn't be a dictator, think of me more as a brother-leader.

    Now get back to work peasant!

    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Hobbilars' whisperer... Member Advo-san's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Communism and democrasy can both be fine systems, depending on the "economical and social situation" of a nation.

    Communism is a fine system for an agricultural, early-industrial society with a poorly educated population. In these situations, a democratic regime would be like a loaded gun in the hands of a four-year old. Communisme is the perfect system for wealth reallocation, and wealth reallocation is number one priority in low-wealth societies, such as the above-mentioned.

    Democracy (in its modern, western, capitalistic form) is the perfect system for semi-developped and developped states vis a vis late-industrial and information-services-oriented states. Modern democracy is the best system to increase wealth production, even though its results in wealth reallocation are rather poor. But in an already developped state, people want to increase the wealth that they are already producing, thus making democracy a formidable system.

    The problem with communism is that once you get it, you can't get rid of it.
    ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΠΡΟΜΑΧΟΥΝΤΕΣ ΑΘΗΝΑΙΟΙ ΜΑΡΑΘΩΝΙ ΜΗΔΩΝ ΧΡΥΣΟΦΟΡΩΝ ΕΣΤΟΡΕΣΑΝ ΔΥΝΑΜΙΝ

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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Democracy by its nature is better then a dictatorship.

    Democracy in history has been better then Communism has been. I am not speaking about the concept of communism - but the application of communism to several nations in the recent past.

    So between the forms of government out there in the world - I would rather live under a democratic form of government then anyother form.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  14. #14
    Hobbilars' whisperer... Member Advo-san's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Now that I get to think of it, the ideal would be: 20 years of democracy followed by 5 years of communism and so on and so on.......
    ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΠΡΟΜΑΧΟΥΝΤΕΣ ΑΘΗΝΑΙΟΙ ΜΑΡΑΘΩΝΙ ΜΗΔΩΝ ΧΡΥΣΟΦΟΡΩΝ ΕΣΤΟΡΕΣΑΝ ΔΥΝΑΜΙΝ

    Champions of the Greeks the Athenians in Marathon strewed the power of the goldendressed Persians

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    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Advo-san
    Communism and democrasy can both be fine systems, depending on the "economical and social situation" of a nation.

    Communism is a fine system for an agricultural, early-industrial society with a poorly educated population. In these situations, a democratic regime would be like a loaded gun in the hands of a four-year old. Communisme is the perfect system for wealth reallocation, and wealth reallocation is number one priority in low-wealth societies, such as the above-mentioned.

    Democracy (in its modern, western, capitalistic form) is the perfect system for semi-developped and developped states vis a vis late-industrial and information-services-oriented states. Modern democracy is the best system to increase wealth production, even though its results in wealth reallocation are rather poor. But in an already developped state, people want to increase the wealth that they are already producing, thus making democracy a formidable system.

    The problem with communism is that once you get it, you can't get rid of it.
    A democracy where the majority doesn't work or contribute would very soon lean towards socialism and it will destroy the capitalistic free market. The government will interfere and soon you have at least a socialistic system, with communistic leaning, "the dictatorship of the majority".......

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    All true democracies (e.g. Athens) have failed.

    No true communism has ever been established.

    Dictatorship can work fine, but the number of enlightened despots is small.

    Sadly, the only governments that ever seem to persist are bureacracies, where the red tape manages to self limit the government enough to let us ignore it and go about living our lives.

    Seamus

    Sorry, had a brief moment of self-indulgent, cynical nihilsm just then. I'll pull through shortly I expect.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    If i have to choose between democracy and communism.I choose republic.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  18. #18
    Saupreuss Member Stefan the Berserker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    The Question I find mostly interessting, is the fact that there are de facto example of mixing pooled-property and Democrathy. Creating some kind of "Democrathic Communism", which is mostly the opposite of Leninism.

    Well examples (in English) to read are:

    - Hutterite

    - Cooperative

    - USFWC

    - Friedrich Wilhelm Raiffeisen

    However, also the Solutions of Ferdinand Lassalle are also interessting to read...

  19. #19
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    I don't mind dictatorship, so long as the views I hold are the same of the dictator.
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  20. #20
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    I don't mind dictatorship, so long as the views I hold are the same of the dictator.
    What he said...

    Not all dictatorships are bad per se. Though of course, the majority are complete disasters. Sometimes a good dictator is better than a democracy with no direction

  21. #21
    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Of the two I would have to choose democracy.

    Communism, because of mans greed will never work. But democracy has some serious flaws too. I hate the fact that everyone has the same amount of voting power. If one person has all the facts and has done the research and is only voting after careful consideration, some idiot who doesn’t like the better candidate’s hair can trump that vote. Republic is no better because it is still swayed by public opinion and corruption. Giving the people what they want is what democracy is all about but when so many of the people are idiots it makes me (edit out 15 minute long mad rant about stupid people) frustrated.

    If a better system of earned or qualified voter eligibility were in place it might be a superior democracy floor plan.
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    "'elp! I'm bein' repressed!" Senior Member Aenlic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Most of the original Kibbutzim in Israel were founded by socialist and communist intellectuals. Many are still run on a cooperative basis that is essentially communism in most respects - internally. Decisions are communal, wealth and property are shared, etc. They are functioning examples of small scale communism. They interact with the outside world in a capitalist system, selling products; but internally they are still communal. One even makes and sells military scout vehicles.

    From 1936-1939, Barcelona and most of the surrounding areas of Catalonia were run as anarcho-communist cooperative. They operated in direct opposition to Stalinist pseudo-communism. Because of that, they managed to piss off both Franco's Falangists and the Stalinist Republican Army and ended up literally caught between the hammer and the anvil. Read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia. He fought in the Spanish Civil War, first for the Republican Army, and then for the Barcelona forces before being wounded and captured. He was in Barcelona during the great experiment.
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho
    Bit of a dumb question. Who is going to choose a dictatorship?
    Singaporeans...
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    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Wow this question is really biased for the modern views on democracy. Various authors have proved tha socialism-communism and formal democracy can work just fine, the same with capitalism. The real question is why...Well as someone said above there's no democracy, there's representative system (that means republican btw) and illusions of public decitions. The only way to achieve true democracy is to all know how to do it (know the making of laws and how to take executive actions) and to have no state as a third party (as it's actually). When the state is in general terms distributed between all then it would be democracy.
    And some definition of communism out there (from Advo-San) is perhaps true, it was created for early industrials societies. But actualice yourself man, all things evolve, the teory of communism is not the one that was a 100 before. And as i see it (because it needs a little bit more of deep analisys) it's one of the best to achieve democracy. Hegel said that revolutions in all fields happened this way: Tesis + Antitesis = Sintesis. In socialism we've the despotism this is the antitesis to make differences of classes disappear, is only one by Marx, but it's worthy of attention. You've to think of it like a Machiavelo thing, "do what you have to do, but do it fast". Politics and society progress is not a thing for conservatists or weak of "heart", nor for the moralists. Again i'll repeat a simple and old frase that still aplies "the end justify the means".
    Born On The Flames

  25. #25

    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    I would vote for what I have dubbed a "virtual democracy" which is now actualy possible due to the new technology and the internet. In said virtual democracy, I would open up a forum for people to debate {much like we have here} and where elector efficials, would be able to post polls registration would require a valid social security number, and proof of age via a birth certificate. The possitives to this are that everyone who had an internet connection could vote for themselfs, and making voting a much lazier thing to do, so I suspect more people would do it.

    There is however one major downside to this, if the system was ever hacked or the admin {president\state governor would be the admins} where to get in and change the vote numbers the result COULD be catastrophic. But given the risks I would heavily support a virtual democracy.

  26. #26
    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by |OCS|Virus
    I would vote for what I have dubbed a "virtual democracy" which is now actualy possible due to the new technology and the internet. In said virtual democracy, I would open up a forum for people to debate {much like we have here} and where elector efficials, would be able to post polls registration would require a valid social security number, and proof of age via a birth certificate. The possitives to this are that everyone who had an internet connection could vote for themselfs, and making voting a much lazier thing to do, so I suspect more people would do it.

    There is however one major downside to this, if the system was ever hacked or the admin {president\state governor would be the admins} where to get in and change the vote numbers the result COULD be catastrophic. But given the risks I would heavily support a virtual democracy.
    No. There're others great downsides. Like for example, how would you do to agree with the great majority in a period of superavit to decrease employement, to keep inflation on the place, when they say not. The great majority will not understand, and this is pretty simple. The only way will be instruct everybody on political affairs and do some oficials referendums periodicaly on important themes. But no one can asure you that they'll understand it, or that they'll be disposed to do so. Altough i agree with the term "virtual democracy".
    Born On The Flames

  27. #27
    Narcissist Member Zalmoxis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    A ghost government that has less rules, but more eficient police would be good.
    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." - John Kenneth Galbraith

  28. #28

    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    No. There're others great downsides. Like for example, how would you do to agree with the great majority in a period of superavit to decrease employement, to keep inflation on the place, when they say not. The great majority will not understand, and this is pretty simple. The only way will be instruct everybody on political affairs and do some oficials referendums periodicaly on important themes. But no one can asure you that they'll understand it, or that they'll be disposed to do so. Altough i agree with the term "virtual democracy".
    You'll have to rephrase the question for me to better understand, I can't sort out the arguements that you have stated. Though it sounds interesting, I'm not sure I understood that.

  29. #29
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    Singaporeans...

  30. #30
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Democracy or Communism?

    Ideally Communism is a better government if run correctly which it could never be done it is impossible because of mans greed so in the real world Democracy is better that Communism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
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