javelins?

**rs2k2** · 08-23-2005, 13:39

i was looking through unit stats of missile units and found that javelin skirmishers have less attack than bowmen. just curious as to if javelins have an inherent bonus like for example slingers are more accurate due to lower trajectory. were javelins armor piercing back then?

**Dutch_guy** · 08-23-2005, 15:43

well javs. do get a bonus versus Elephants and chariots , don't know if they have an armor piercing bonus in the game.
Also if you don't like the idea of javs having a lower attack rating than archers , you could mod it or download a major mod - RTR comes to mind.

**econ21** · 08-23-2005, 16:36

The official strategy guide says javelins have an AP bonus. I looked at the RTR 6.0 txt file for unit descriptions and could not see an "ap" on any weapon attribute, but I am not a modder and maybe that is not how they are denoted. It certainly "feels" as if javelins are AP in RTR, although that may just be their very high attack value (15, IIRC). Personally, I suspect javelins may be a little too powerful in RTR although at least it generates interesting combined arms gameplay.

**Deus ret.** · 08-23-2005, 17:39

Yep, I'm rather glad they pumped up javelin units. They (as RTR missile units in general) usually are too cheap, though. E.g. Balearic slingers alone can wipe out several enemy units and cost only 120 denarii upkeep.

Not sure about standard jav units in vanilla RTW, but Roman infantry definitely has armour piercing pila. Which makes them even more deadly.

**CBR** · 08-23-2005, 17:41

In vanilla the Pilum is AP but not javelins. In RTR none of them are AP.

I decreased all missile attack values in RTR as I found myself wanting more and more missile units for my armies and just a few inf and cav for support. I also decreased the range of slingers and archers down to MTW levels and now I use a mix of longrange missile and javelin skirmishers for my armies.

CBR

**econ21** · 08-23-2005, 17:49

Originally Posted by CBR

I decreased all missile attack values in RTR as I found myself wanting more and more missile units for my armies and just a few inf and cav for support. I also decreased the range of slingers and archers down to MTW levels and now I use a mix of longrange missile and javelin skirmishers for my armies.

Sounds sensible. Playing as Roman, I try to limit myself to one long range missile unit and historical proportions of velites. I think self-restraint works almost as well as editing the stats would, as the AI does not know how to exploit the high missile attack (I would not like to fight Samartia, though).

**CBR** · 08-23-2005, 18:26

Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

I think self-restraint works almost as well as editing the stats would, as the AI does not know how to exploit the high missile attack (I would not like to fight Samartia, though).

Yes Im just a number cruncher who prefer to change stats and costs so I dont have to think about making rules

CBR

**The Stranger** · 08-23-2005, 18:44

Pila's have AP bonus (armour piercing)
javelines have none. They have low attack cuz they barely ever miss. and archers are overpowered in RTW.

to give them a bit more puch change them to 8 attack or just add ,ap

**Doug-Thompson** · 08-23-2005, 19:32

Javelins are more plentiful, but not as useful, as they were in Medieval: Total War.

They are very useful in specific situations like fighting elephants. No argument there. However, in a general battle it takes some time to line things up. Well, you don't have that much time in a RTW battle.

**Deus ret.** · 08-23-2005, 20:04

Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

Javelins are more plentiful, but not as useful, as they were in Medieval: Total War.

Hi Doug...good to see you back, I enjoyed your posts ever since the VI days

in any case...: I know this is off-topic but in what ways were javelin units useful in MTW (except for the jinetes of course)? I always used them as cannon fodder since they were quite cheap and easily built.

**Doug-Thompson** · 08-23-2005, 20:24

Thanks, Deus ret. I was out of town on business for months, and then my computer died. But it's nice to be back.

There were some really good threads on javelins in the old MTW forum, but the best javelin troops and units to work with them were in Muslim factions, plus the Hungarians.

The best way to use javelins in MTW is to get them to shoot at the enemy's backs, but the quickest way is to cram them right up behind a thin line of your own melee troops. Be sure to turn the javelin throwers off fire-at-will and order them to fire by clicking.

The thrown javelins will go right over your melee troops and do serious damage to the enemy armored troops, including morale damage from losses. This saves lives of your own armored troops.

When the enemy breaks, have the javelin troops alt attack and melee. Most javelin troops are faster than regular foot troops in MTW. They'll take hordes of prisoners while your original melee troops can break off the pursuit and go attack another unit.