Attack, Charge.....What's the Diff?

[Phil M]

Every Unit has an Attack and a Charge rating.

So when is a unit charging and not attacking?
Or,how do you get a unit to attack without charging?

I couldn't find this specifically stated in the manual or any
of the guides.....so no RTFM please

Though it's probably in there but I missed it

ANYHOW.....WHAT A KICK ARSE OF A GAME!!!!!!!!

Never got Shogan all those years ago, tried the demo, but the Battles just didn't seem to grab me for some reason.

Picked up MTW on budget, and well, .......something clicked,
Just love the play on the campaign map, best Strat game I've ever played.....well, up there with
Star Wars Rebellion.

And the battles well.....say no more

[tigger_on_vrb]

Attack rating is how big your chance of killing an enemy is (relative to their defence rating)
Charge applies for the first few seconds after combat is started (when you tell a unit to attck another - you dont get it if you are attacked from the side or rear or by surprise). AFAIK the charge number is a bonus added to your attack rating for this short period of time.
Charge can make all the difference especially for cavalry and units like woodsmen who have low attack but a huge charge.
A question for others..... is the negative moral modifier you get for being hit in the flank or rear more when the enemy unit is charging rather than just attcking you?

[CBR]

Yes the charge value is added to the attack value for a few seconds. An attacking unit will not get this bonus if its too close to the target when doing a charge. If you just walk a line of units into an enemy line they will start fighting but again it will be without the charge bonus.


CBR

[Phil M]

Arrrr!!! Thanks guys, that was answered with great exquisiteness (had to look that spelling up )

So the unit needs time to get up to charging speed.
Think I remember reading somthing bout that

"Attack rating is how big your chance of killing an enemy is (relative to their defence rating)"
Arrr Right.....Elementry Strat lingo, fancy forgetting that


Anyhow, 1/2 after midnight here so must skamoose!!!!!
My most plagued addition

[Geezer57]

Another factor to keep in mind might be called the "3-second rule". In order to get the charge bonus to their attack factor, a unit must travel in a straight line far enough to get up to speed - about 3 seconds on level terrain. If you wait too long to countercharge an approaching enemy, and they get close, you won't be able to get up to "ramming speed".
Tired units often won't be able to charge - they just can't move fast enough. And heavily armored troops aren't always able to charge up a steep hill, even if they aren't all that tired.

[Zild]

This is one I've always been a little worried on, getting the charge distance right.

Is that three seconds from when the attack is ordered, or from when the last unit starts moving (there's a big difference, sometimes...)

Any other general advice on charging? Or ways to know if you are doing it right or wrong?

[EatYerGreens]

Zild, when you say 'last unit starts moving' it sounds like you're referring to making a massed charge using many units at once and some take their time about getting off the mark? I don't know the answer to that but it reminded me of something.

I'm watching a unit of 100 spearmen and I order it to charge at something, from a standing start. I notice the front rank begins to run, then the second rank, then third and so on. Not all at once. It's really noticeable at 5 ranks deep. Anyway, the thing is their rank-to-rank spacing is changed when they are running and I wonder if that alters factors like the 'rank bonus'? Anyone know?

In other words, they get enhanced attack factor for a few seconds when they hit the receiving unit but, by losing rank bonus, their defence rating is temporarily lowered, which weakens them in meleé. If so, it might pay to have their icon highlighted and, once their 3-second bonus period is up, hit the 'stop' icon, so as to cancel the charge/attack order and then have them form up into close ranks again and do 'nothing'. That's to say hold form/hold position and just sit and take what the enemy unit dishes out to them but, this time, making the most of their rank bonus in defence mode.

For the uninitiated, 'rank bonus' reflects the fact that spears are long enough for the front 3 ranks to bring weapons to bear simultaneously, making it harder for attackers to get in amongst them and score kills. It enhances their defence rating, especially against horsemen.

For swords units, only the front rank can bring weapons to bear, until they manage to actually break into a formation and intermingle with the enemy unit. This maximises the amount of individuals fighting but at the expense of their own defence rating, since fellows to either side or behind them could lose their swordfight and leave them in a (local) 2v1 situation.

Cavalry charges have tremendous impact but penetrate so deeply into infantry units that they often take heavy casualties if allowed to remain in prolonged meleé, for exactly this reason.

Recommendation from the forum posts I've seen is to charge, make the most of the heavy contact, then attempt to disengage, pull away, turn around and charge again. This is tricky to achieve since disengaging necessarily means they breifly have their backs to the enemy. Also, the battle software may misenterpret this disengagement as a rout/prisoner capture opportunity and register further losses accordingly. However, if the main meleé is foot vs foot and the cav charge is into the flank, it should work okay as the foot unit is probably too preoccupied to take the cav as prisoners when they turn away for their second strike.

[Matty]

Leave the charging to your general - single click the target unit you want to attack and the general will decide when to start the charge. This can be frustrating as they'll wander over for a while before barrelling in at the last moment. But if you double click ('run') on the enemy or slightly behind, you end up knackering out your men as they leg it all over the shop.

I've noticed the AI on expert or above will charge with cavalry, disengage and then charge again - for me its a bit too much point and click work if I've got a big battle going on so I'll just select where and when to launch the cavalry charge so that I'm pretty sure of breaking the enemy first wallop. Then its just a question of routing them off the field.

[Grey_Fox]

If you only single click the unit will not actually reach the speed to get the charge bonus. You are better off just running at the target manually.

[antisocialmunky]

Leave the charging to your general - single click the target unit you want to attack and the general will decide when to start the charge. This can be frustrating as they'll wander over for a while before barrelling in at the last moment. But if you double click ('run') on the enemy or slightly behind, you end up knackering out your men as they leg it all over the shop.

I've noticed the AI on expert or above will charge with cavalry, disengage and then charge again - for me its a bit too much point and click work if I've got a big battle going on so I'll just select where and when to launch the cavalry charge so that I'm pretty sure of breaking the enemy first wallop. Then its just a question of routing them off the field.

Single click works for charging, however I like to double to make sure.