Attack, Charge.....What's the Diff?

[EatYerGreens]

I've had interesting results where I double click on the ground - to make a destination - rather than on the enemy unit.

This is foot units I'm talking about here but could equally apply to Cav.

Where my unit's only straight-line route to the destination is through the enemy unit, they will run at full speed, crash into the enemy, be brought to a halt and will then fight it out. If they win, they will advance to the spot I told them to go to and then, vitally, STOP.

This is for battles where I know the AI has shedloads of reinforcements to come onto the field and I know my attention will be divided for the time between ordering the unit to engage and it finishing its fight. This ensures that it will break off from pursuing routers at the place where I want them to stop and I retain overall cohesion. Divided attention factor means a plain attack order will have my men chasing them across to the back end of the field then, whilst out of my sight, becoming a sitting duck for incoming enemies.

I've yet to have a chance to test this next bit but I hope to use the same technique to get a cavalry unit, in wedge, to strike a unit in the flank, push through the unit and out the other side, breaking up their formation and disengaging without having to do a risky 180deg turn in the middle of the meleé. Once out in the open, they can reform and I repeat it in the opposite direction, if needed, using the same technique.

[Mr White]

I've yet to have a chance to test this next bit but I hope to use the same technique to get a cavalry unit, in wedge, to strike a unit in the flank, push through the unit and out the other side, breaking up their formation and disengaging without having to do a risky 180deg turn in the middle of the meleé. Once out in the open, they can reform and I repeat it in the opposite direction, if needed, using the same technique.

Hope it works. Let us know if it succeeds.

[Zild]

Surely the run-through loses the charge bonus, though?

I use run throughs with Royal Knights (especially the King's) against archers - since they tend to run away, they have their backs to you. And since you didn't official charge them, the unit continues to barge through them, as opposed to attacking. It seems to work especially well with a single row (ideally with the full 20/21 men) - I think this is because the men on the edges continue at full pace, and the ones in the middle struggle harder to catch up.

I almost always use this tactic on the first turn of my Early English campaigns against the French in Normandy - typically, the RKs will wipe out around 25 archers, breaking them instantly (the rest are quickly captured), with only one or two losses to the RKs,typically from missiles on whilst charging as opposed to the combat itself.

[CBR]

Ahh the swipe tsk tsk

Yes it works best in a 1-2 rank line. The secret is the banner. As long as the soldier with the banner doesnt face an enemy you can get the swipe effect.


CBR

[Zild]

Ahh the swipe tsk tsk

Yes it works best in a 1-2 rank line. The secret is the banner. As long as the soldier with the banner doesnt face an enemy you can get the swipe effect.

Oh, really? That's interesting...

Following on from that, regarding banners:

I've occasionally had battles where my King has been tied up in the middle of a unit of spears and I've tried to withdraw him in order to make a subsequent charge, but he's been pinned down and unable to get out.

Then, as I've moved the camera around, I've found that the banner has switched to another man (one far away from the fight)! This is crazy at the best of times, but when it's my general - or worse, my King! - it could be pretty bloody crucial!

Anybody experienced similar things? Any thoughts?

[CBR]

Well if the banner guys gets killed someone else will take it and it doesnt have to be close to the original banner AFAIK.


CBR

[EatYerGreens]

Ahh the swipe tsk tsk

Yes it works best in a 1-2 rank line. The secret is the banner. As long as the soldier with the banner doesnt face an enemy you can get the swipe effect.

CBR

CBR, just out of interest, what does 'swipe' (or was it 'swipe card'??) mean in the context of multiplayer?

I wasn't in the conversation but watched this scroll by and got the feeling it had something to do with a cheat or exploit people use. Is it the same thing?

[Grey_Fox]

It's the same thing, but it is viewed as a bug and a cheat amongst the older players and clans (by older I mean long-term). Unfortunately it is now prolific amongst the new players and new clans in MTW.

[CBR]

CBR, just out of interest, what does 'swipe' (or was it 'swipe card'??) mean in the context of multiplayer?

I wasn't in the conversation but watched this scroll by and got the feeling it had something to do with a cheat or exploit people use. Is it the same thing?

Swipe was a bug that got introduced in MTW 1.1 and got fixed in VI 2.01. It took a while before players starting realizing precisely how to exploit it and it gave cavalry immense power.

Swipe had a few good things actually as cavalry was much better at killing off enemy pavs but overall it was annoying and made for some very random cav v cav fights as one unit might be totally devastated just because the enemy came in just at the right angle.

Swipe was the golden days of cav in thin 1 rank lines heh. It was only after the VI patch that the standard of 10k came into being as 15k had been the standard before and even still was a standard after VI came out (even with VI increasing morale by 2 for all units) You simply had to have highly pumped up infantry to deal with powerful cavalry.

Swipe was not the only thing that was removed in VI 2.01 as the automatic charge when running was removed too (I actually think it was the main way CA fixed swipe) Before that it was easy to make large scale attacks with your whole army as all you needed was to select the units and doubleclick/drag behind the enemy line and make them run. With VI 2.01 you have to select each unit and click on an enemy unit to get the charge bonus.


CBR

[EatYerGreens]

Thanks Grey Fox and CBR.

Seems my idea wasn't so original after all. Though I didn't picture it as a single line of cav and the message further back about chasing archers isn't the same thing either. Not sure what that was about. And banners? That went over my head too.

I was on about a straightforward cav wedge into the side of an already engaged, squarish shaped block of inf, but not explicitly engaging it, just running to a destination on its far side, by running through.

I see in the notes to VI on the CD that it says they fixed "certain occasions where cav get perpetual charge bonus", so I suppose what I'm proposing is exactly that. I didn't know about it at the time, is all I can say in my defence. I thought it would be a safer mover than charge, meleé, disengage, turn around, pull away, turn around, charge again... which is a lot of clicking to do and diverts attention for rather more time than I'm comfortable with.

I prefer 'move to position' because, for as long as I've retained overall cohesion, I tend to think in terms of "I want my men to be here, here and here" and, if enemies are in the way, then my units engage automatically and I don't have to think about it, or even look at what's going on.

However, when it turns chaotic I do switch to attacking 'targets of opportunity' wherever I see them.... but I don't always see everything and often find full-strength units sat idle, whilst others are in deep trouble but too far away to be rescued. The idle units are often ones I ordered to attack but ended up in a pursuit and they weren't fast enough to catch the enemy unit. That's how they end up on the edge of the map.

Frustrating normally but this actually kept me in a recent MP battle for a good 10 mins extra, with just 2 units left (CMAA/FMAA). Lots of marching to get to the final piece of action. Our side regrouped, attacked what was left - and lost - but it was a fun match and good to have lasted that long.