Question about ancillaries.

[Mongoose]

in vanilla RTW, ancillaries were much more limited for "barbarians" then for greek and roman factions. Is EB going to change this?

If so, how?

thanks

[Malrubius]

Ooh, ooh, a question for me!

I'll answer regarding the open beta (for the final version there will be a lot more than the beta).

In vanilla, some ancillaries were outright unavailable to the barbarian culture. But why couldn't a 'barbarian' recognize the usefulness of an architect, if he wanted to order the construction of a building?

We've also worked around some bugs from the vanilla files, so that now generals can get ancillaries after coming of age or getting married. So that's almost as good as adding a few new ancillaries.

But we're adding new ancillaries, too: A handful of new historical ancillaries, a large number of ancillaries for Pahlava, new priest and temple ancillaries.

I'll be packing more in there every day until the open beta.

[Mongoose]

Ok, thanks for the quick answer!


One more reason to look forword to when/it's/done

[jerby]

what kidn of triggers will be used for the anciliares?or will they be a bit "random"?
will father look like sons, or the opposite?

[Malrubius]

This area is in heavy development right now, and is nowhere near being complete. The triggers for getting ancillaries will not be much different from the original files for the open beta. Some of the historical ancillaries will be a bit more historical in where they can be acquired. Fathers will affect the traits of their sons, and traits can affect ancillary acquisition, just like in vanilla.

We have some big plans for the future beyond the open beta. Only a tiny fraction of what we want will be done for the beta.

[jerby]

how hard will it be to "breed" a 10-star General?

[Malrubius]

If you mean, to have a general come of age with 10 stars in Command, I'd say very very rare. We're trying to make exceptional characters exceptional, not common.

[jerby]

yes..that i understand,
what i tried to ask (but didnt phrase dorrectly, sorry bout that) was how hard will it be to get a General up to 10-stars?
And what will be the in-field-effects of a high command-rating general? statwise, i meen

[Malrubius]

Ah, ok, I thought you were just asking about the genetics part of things.

Well, the main visible effect of Command stars themselves seems to be that they provide a morale boost to nearby units:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44549

They will be generally more difficult to acquire than in the original game, depending on the general's natural ability. But good leaders can inspire their men, and soldiers feel more confident when commanded by capable generals.

[Mongoose]

So, your saying that all ancillaries will be available to the "barbarian" Factions?

Or will they have to take a greek/roman/eastern city first?

[kayapó]

Some of the historical ancillaries will be a bit more historical in where they can be acquired.

So Archimedes only to someone how is managing Syracuse? That is really great. What about factions? Will Archimedes be available to Romans as in vanilla???

[jerby]

another, more specific, Q:
what triggers a general to gain a Command-star (in the battlefield)?

[therother]

The issue of acquiring command stars is one that the EB team has given a great deal of thought to, specifically with a mind to making whole traits system more realistic. The EB system is therefore quite different from vanilla, and is certainly substantially more complex. I think people will like the changes when they play the forthcoming open beta.

[abortretryfail]

So Archimedes only to someone how is managing Syracuse? That is really great. What about factions? Will Archimedes be available to Romans as in vanilla???

Is there any way to make killing a general w/ a certain ancillary a trigger for the victorious general aquiring that specific ancillary? If my Roman general slaughters A greek w/ Archimedes in his retinue, Roman general generously allows Archimedes to live so long as he serves him. that would be cool.

[kayapó]

Is there any way to make killing a general w/ a certain ancillary a trigger for the victorious general aquiring that specific ancillary? If my Roman general slaughters A greek w/ Archimedes in his retinue, Roman general generously allows Archimedes to live so long as he serves him. that would be cool.

I quote the great Malrubius: "As it is, we have no way to check a general for ancillaries".

So the answer is unfortunatly no. But I give you that it would indeed be very cool...

k

[Danest]

Historically, didn't the Romans actually kill archimedes instead of actually keeping him, upon capturing Syracuse? Heh, maybe then the loss of ancilliaries is, hmm, just fine? :p

[Mongoose]

Can't we keep the slaves though?

[Malrubius]

There are 2 technical difficulties that are insurmountable here:

1. The bane of the ancillary system--we can't tell what ancillary a general has gotten, either through a trigger, or as a present from another general.

2. We can only see and affect the traits of a single general at a time (one exception being a general's father). We can't say, "if this enemy general has this trait, give this trait to this general."

So, in conclusion, a general's traits can be based on his father's traits (and only his father's, not his son's, brother's, or enemy's), but his ancillaries can not be based on anybody else's ancillaries.




And yes, one story of Archimedes' death is that the Roman general Marcellus sent his soldiers to bring the great mathematician to him. Archimedes wanted to finish the math problem he was working on instead ("Do not disturb my circles!"), so they killed him. Maybe they were upset because the engines he had built for King Hiero had killed so many of their countrymen?

[metatron]

Historically, didn't the Romans actually kill archimedes instead of actually keeping him, upon capturing Syracuse? Heh, maybe then the loss of ancilliaries is, hmm, just fine? :p

He was slaughtered by a legionary because he wouldn't leave his home.

The general of the campaign, Marcelleus, was rather incensed, as he had given specific instructions to capture Archimedes alive.

[jerby]

what about an "avenger" trait? if a father was killed by a faction (rome perhaps). his son would get:' avenge romans" or soemthing..and get a +1-command versus Romans..maybe

[Moros]

what about an "avenger" trait? if a father was killed by a faction (rome perhaps). his son would get:' avenge romans" or soemthing..and get a +1-command versus Romans..maybe

I like this Idea!!!
this would really be cool.

[kayapó]

I like this Idea!!!
this would really be cool.

Yes really cool. But I don't think this is possible either. When Malrubius said that the general's father is an exception, so there is a way to check his traits, I think he means the father would have to be alive. I might be wrong.

k

[Big_John]

well, maybe it could be given to a living son at the father's death event if he is killed in battle?

[Malrubius]

You can't give a general a trait if he's dead.

The death event takes place during the battle, and you can't give traits during battles. You can give traits after battles, but there's no death event that ties into the character record so a trait can be given. You have to have an event that exports character_record for a trait to be given. AFAIK, one doesn't exist.

Lots of the documented events and conditions don't even work right, or don't work at all, so I doubt there are any undocumented ones that will do the trick, and nobody has been able to find them yet.

[Dux Corvanus]

He was slaughtered by a legionary because he wouldn't leave his home.

The general of the campaign, Marcelleus, was rather incensed, as he had given specific instructions to capture Archimedes alive.

Yep, the complete story was like this: the guy was in his yard, obsessed with some geometry problem he was drawing with a stick in the pool of sand that the ancient used as we use chalkboards now. The soldier entered the yard and tried to bring him out, but he refused. He was about to find the solution to the problem and wanted to have it solved before leaving. Then the soldier started to erase with his feet the figures that Archimedes had drawn, so the wise man was very angered. He started beating the soldier with his thin stick as he yelled: "Don't erase my circles!"

Those were his last words. The infuriated soldier drew his sword and stabbed him.

[kayapó]

Yep, the complete story was like this: the guy was in his yard, obsessed with some geometry problem he was drawing with a stick in the pool of sand that the ancient used as we use chalkboards now. The soldier entered the yard and tried to bring him out, but he refused. He was about to find the solution to the problem and wanted to have it solved before leaving. Then the soldier started to erase with his feet the figures that Archimedes had drawn, so the wise man was very angered. He started beating the soldier with his thin stick as he yelled: "Don't erase my circles!"

Those were his last words. The infuriated soldier drew his sword and stabbed him.

And that's how a mith is born.

Not that I don't believe in the story...
I have a great respect for miths.

k

ps. Loved it, saved it for later use...

[jerby]

well..i dotn think it's that heroic..
"dont erase my circles" sounds a bit excentrick..

btw, i didnt know you were a member kayapo..what's you function?

[kayapó]

btw, i didnt know you were a member kayapo..what's you function?

Malrubius seems to think I have some use...

...if you ask me he must be developing some really bad traits...it is starting to affect his judgement...or maybe he's been standing too long around a temple of fun.

k

[therother]

...if you ask me he must be developing some really bad traits...it is starting to affect his judgement...or maybe he's been standing too long around a temple of fun.

Nah, it's his ancillaries that are the problem: they are forever giving him more work to do, rather than helping him out.

[kayapó]

Nah, it's his ancillaries that are the problem: they are forever giving him more work to do, rather than helping him out.

WHAT??? Someone has to nerf them ASAP.
I just wonder, who will have the courage? He who steps up to this task must be either crazy or a masochist...