Pc Rpg

[Steppe Merc]

I suggest waiting for Oblivion to come out this fall. Wee!

[Lehesu]

Fat chance of my rig handling that. I WILL NOT get it on console...the mod oppurtunities are too good to be wasted.

[econ21]

Strangely, since reading this thread, I started playing NWN again. Like Lehesu I never really liked it much. I found it generally bland, unchallenging and soulless[1].

However, I'm now playing a couple of mods from the ign Hall of Fame - the Shadowlords (soloing it) and CC1-Myth Drannor (with my son) - and they're really rather good. CC1 seems amazingly polished for an amateur production - its maps are rather beautiful and the combat seems very well pitched in terms of challenge. Shadowlords is working up to an epic story in the BG mold and even throwing in a rather sweet romance. I'd recommend trying them both - afterall, you can't quibble about the price.

[1]Although Charwood area in Chapter 2 of the OC and the Witch's Wake module by Bioware are up there as among the best experiences CRPGs can offer. Shadows of Undrentide was also fun - Deekin the kobold bard is hard to beat as a recruitable NPC.

[AggonyDuck]

Yup, the normal NWN campaigns are rather poor. But the fan generated content is sometimes pretty wonderful. I recommend trying the Aielund Saga, when you find the time. It's by now rather bugfree and it's truly a great mod.

[Kekvit Irae]

Twilight and Midnight are also good modules if you want to play a REAL paladin, not just some Lawful Stupid fighter with a holy sword. The only problem is that waiting for the third installation (Dawn) is like waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Fable. From what I've seen anyway, no one has said anything about it...

[Geoffrey S]

It's more of an adventure than an RPG, but I've got to pimp Outcast, excellent game. And on the RPG side I found Anachronox rather good fun.

[Somebody Else]

Twilight and Midnight are also good modules if you want to play a REAL paladin, not just some Lawful Stupid fighter with a holy sword. The only problem is that waiting for the third installation (Dawn) is like waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.

What she said. Plus, do the Rogue module, by the same guy. It be good.

[Lehesu]

Fable is, not, at least right now, a PC RPG. Rest assured, I will be getting the Lost Chapters for Xbox, as I have heard the game is decent.

[Steppe Merc]

Lehesu, even though I have Morrowind GOTY for Xbox, I'm gonna get Oblivion for PC, cause the prices will be the same, and for Xbox you can't mod and download new sweet stuff.
Plus I don't want to have to lay out $350 for a new Xbox console...

[the Count of Flanders]

I had great fun playing Divine Divinity (indeed the sequel beyond divinity wasn't nearly as good), the side quests are fun, the world is immersive and very open (go whereever you want) and the game is huge, there's tons of things to do. The skill system is way cool too! You should be able to pick it up for just a few bucks...
Trust me, the demo of DD isn't nearly what the full game is. The demo is very Diablo-like while the full game has a lot more unobvious quests and great npc interaction (while in the demo you just hack yourself a way through a dungeon).

[Mount Suribachi]

Baldur's Gate series is good but Planescape: Torment is better. It has amazing story & characters and excellent dialogue. Mind you, it is not a traditional pseudo-medieval fantasy setting, but a much more "fantastical" one. And you better be willing to spend a *lot* of time just having conversations with NPCs.

Thanks for those links, I've played PST all the way through to completion and never came across either of those dialogue threads

I also highly recommend PST to the list of the RPGs to play. One poster complained of getting stuck in the first city and giving up - I too did that. Thankfully I tried it again a couple of years later and got straight into it no problems. I think because it takes the BG engine and twists it, its very hard to get used to. Once I figured out how everything worked I really got into it.

The character development system is superb, unlike virtually every other RPG before KOTOR, the game decided whether you were good or evil based upon your actions, rather than a pre-defined status, and it impacted on how the game played. I've never had such an emotional attatchment a computer character as I did to The Nameless One. I felt genuine guilt as I discovered some of the terrible things I had done in previous incarnations. I fell in love with Annah (I think it was the tail ), she was such a vulnerable young woman who hid her weaknesses behind a veneer of toughness, I just wanted to give her a big hug, the end of the game left me heartbroken. And Morte, such a funny guy, but oh how I had mistreated him. And Dakkon, such a noble, honourable warrior, and I used that honour for my own evil purposes.......I just wanted to say sorry to them all, to try and put things right.

You might say I was attatched to my character

The dialogue is superb, the plot deep, the characters complex, the setting original.

BG and BG2 are also excellent, but more traditional than PST.

[Dorkus]

Well, I have to say, just for those of us who focus on character development for combat/tactics/strategy purposes rather than story, PST was a bit of a disappointment. Still not a bad game, but probably not worth the $40 I plunked down for it originally.

There really isn't much fighting or strategy in it at all. It's more of a RPS (role-playing story) rather than RPG. And if you tend to find fantasy writing of this sort a bit dull, then PST probably isn't for you. There's a really masssive amount of dialogue...

On the other hand, BGII and especially TOB with the enhanced difficulty mod were really really fantastic games. I must have fought the dgorg battle a hundred times; there were so many different strategies one coudl take to it (most of them complete failures, hehe). And I still remember the first time I looked at the stats and abilities on one of those planetars... just complete awe!!!!

[Voigtkampf]

Fallout.

One RPG to rule them all.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Does anyone have any tips on how to get hold of Planescape:Torment? It's been recommended to be several times, but nowhere seems to stock it.

[Geoffrey S]

Looks like I'm going to have to find Planescape: Torment somewhere. Sounds excellent.

[Dorkus]

Amazon has a list of retailers (including gogamer) -- just do a search for planescape. I've had a lot of success with amazon affiliated merchants, so don't be too worried about lack of brand.

Like I said, however, PST is not for everyone. There's a lot of dialogue and preciously little combat. I actually managed to play through it (mainly because I kept thinking "surely they're going to allow me to test my character development/equipment soon! after all, what's the us of all these stats and swords if I never get to fight anything?")

But I was disappointed by the general lack of gameplay elements.

Then again, at around $12 or so, it's not like you have a lot to lose :)

[econ21]

But I was disappointed by the general lack of gameplay elements.

It's a different kind of gameplay. It offers a lot of possibilities to roleplay - to get into character. It's kind of curious that RPGs have become equated with stats, swords and combat. Just today I was reading an old White Dwarf, circa 1978, and it said jokingly acknowledged that Dnd encouraged RPGers to become psychotic looters who kill first and maybe ask questions later.

I think PST does the real roleplaying rather well. You do feel immersed in the story and do have to make non-trivial moral decisions, where there is no clearly right answer but there are consequences. In this, it's a million miles from Dungeon Siege or even Morrowind, but it's where I think CRPGs can become more than just action or strategy games with stats and swords. I also remember liking the fact that all the stats seemed to matter (unlike standard Dnd where classes can neglect half of them).

The problem I had was that I did not particularly care for the role I was cast in. The world is very dark and rather ugly; playing it, I felt nostalgic for the green pastures of BG and the shining steel of a long sword (PST deliberately included no swords for TNO in the game). I have an old save I keep returning to, but never get up much enthusiasm for it.

[Mount Suribachi]

Does anyone have any tips on how to get hold of Planescape:Torment? It's been recommended to be several times, but nowhere seems to stock it.

Unless you can find it stuck on a shelf somewhere ebay is probly your best bet.

I'd give you mine, but I'm such a pack-rat in real life I can't bear to part with my old games (I've still got NHL 94 for the MegaDrive in my loft )

[econ21]

I'd second Dorkus's recommendation of going via Amazon. I did that to get hold of an out of stock game and the service was fast and courteous. You'd probably end up buying from a different outfit to the one that I dealt with, but I think like E-bay, the reputation keeps the system from being abused.

For people in the UK, here's the link:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...311825-1204431

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Woah, that's pretty steep for a game that old.

[Kekvit Irae]

Woah, that's pretty normal for a game that good.

Fixed

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Heh, point taken.

The PC version of Final Fantasy VIII actually goes on ebay and Amazon for more than I paid for it when it first came out.

[Dorkus]

Fair enough. I should have said there are fewer COMBAT gameplay elements. So if you're the tactical combat type of person, then PST might not be for you. (though, I must say, I take offense to the idea that Dungeon Siege has action or strategy :P)

Having said that, even as someone who doesn't particularly like the fantasy genre, I have to say that the writing in PST was unusually good. So if you like that type of game (KOTOR, Jade empire, possibly morrowind?), it's probably can't miss.

I just wanted to throw in a contrary opinion. Especially since BI's other games (Fallout, Icewind Dales, FOTactics) were all really excellent on combat.

OH BTW, I cannot BELIEVE that this hasn't been mentioned. But Wizardry 8 (released in 2001 I believe?) might very well be the best rpg ever. Made by the same outfit that put out Jagged Alliance 2!!! (Sir Tech)

One last thing:

SPOILER WARNING

I"m pretty sure there was at least one sword in PST? The Celestial Fury or something of the sort? It changed to a different sort of weapon depending on your alignment I think?

It's a different kind of gameplay. It offers a lot of possibilities to roleplay - to get into character. It's kind of curious that RPGs have become equated with stats, swords and combat. Just today I was reading an old White Dwarf, circa 1978, and it said jokingly acknowledged that Dnd encouraged RPGers to become psychotic looters who kill first and maybe ask questions later.

I think PST does the real roleplaying rather well. You do feel immersed in the story and do have to make non-trivial moral decisions, where there is no clearly right answer but there are consequences. In this, it's a million miles from Dungeon Siege or even Morrowind, but it's where I think CRPGs can become more than just action or strategy games with stats and swords. I also remember liking the fact that all the stats seemed to matter (unlike standard Dnd where classes can neglect half of them).

The problem I had was that I did not particularly care for the role I was cast in. The world is very dark and rather ugly; playing it, I felt nostalgic for the green pastures of BG and the shining steel of a long sword (PST deliberately included no swords for TNO in the game). I have an old save I keep returning to, but never get up much enthusiasm for it.

[econ21]

OH BTW, I cannot BELIEVE that this hasn't been mentioned. But Wizardry 8 (released in 2001 I believe?) might very well be the best rpg ever.

Yes, Wiz8 is very much on the opposite side of the combat -----roleplay spectrum to PST. Personally, I hated it.

The combat was a masochistic trudge through endlessly cycling turns of combat, watching bloodsplats spurt from your party members due to the posion darts of some walking plant that goes phoot-phoot (and is probably called phoot-phoot). I dutifully learnt the arcane levelling and character creation system, creating what I am sure was a min-maxed party but still struggled to progress, with my party often dying a very slow painful death.

I could discern no notable plot, no world of any size to explore, no NPCs with any character, no innovative sideplots and no atmosphere (well the crashed spaceship was vaguely cool, except this was a swords and sorcery game and anyway it spoiled the effect by housing a vacuous minor in-game celebrity called Vi Dominae or some such who acted like she had walked off the set of East Enders.)

The nadir was when my party were wading through a swamp and the apparently big baddie appeared as a hologram, looking like a reject villain from Power Rangers, to pointlessly gloat at me "Mwahhaha!".

It's amazing that the game could have come from the people who made Jagged Alliance 2, which I admit was sublime. Amazing but rather reminiscent of the people who made brilliant Vampires: Bloodlines and the flawed jem of Arcanum also producing the tedious dungeon crawl of Temple of Elemental Evil.

I"m pretty sure there was at least one sword in PST? The Celestial Fury or something of the sort? It changed to a different sort of weapon depending on your alignment I think?

Dakkon's Zerth blade, IIRC. Very cool - like Dakkon. But you (TNO) could not wield it.

[frogbeastegg]

I've done my appreciative spiel for Planescape: Torment many times over, so I will only repeat in brief: Buy. Now.

I loved the game. The darker setting, the sheer oddity of most of everything in the world, and the focus on talking and thinking bumped the game far above the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games in my froggy opinion. The humour was good too. I felt each NPC had more depth and detail than the ones in the other Black Isle games, and that the plot was a deal more personal. Epic is nice in its place, but the tighter focus here really appealed to me.

I picked up the game when it was brand new because I had bumbled (I'm dyslexic; all those nasty numbers sit there and scream "So you want to know how good your character is? Tough luck! Gah! We pwnz u n00b!!!1!1!" Another reason I loved Torment was that the numbers were a bit more hidden and a bit less important, meaning I didn’t need to cheat to survive and wasn’t perpetually puzzled) my way through the other D&D PC RPGS out there. I started the game, wandered about the mortuary, and basically thought I almost quit the game and gave up. But, to my eternal gratitude, I kept going, and as soon as I got into Sigil I fell in love with the game.

My only grumble with the whole game is that I've never been able to finish it. Every time I reach the UnderSigil area (near the end, about 85% of the way through) of the game it slows to not even 1FPS, so it's entirely unplayable. This has happened over and over on several different incarnations of my PC. The game's perfectly fine until the very second I go to that area, at which point everywhere is unplayable. Don't let this discourage you; I've never encountered anyone else with the same problem.

:cough: Alright, so I didn’t manage to keep it to just the two words. But that shows how much I love this game, and this is the short version of my ramblings.

Swords!

Dakon's zerth blade changes according to his level and state of mind. Celestial Fury can be a sword, as well as other weapons. You just have to talk to it and ask it to become one.

Combat!

There could be a fair bit of fighting in Torment, if you set your character and path to it. Just pump your points into 'muscle boy' attributes like strength and nmot wisdom, then keep on picking fights instead of taking the chances to talk your way out or reason with people. Play as evil for good measure. I really did love the way the game gave you this kind of choice, unlike the other RPGs where generally fighting was the rule, except in a few situations.


Now I feel like giving Torment another go. After all, my PC is almost entirely new thanks to that powercut which melted half the innards, so maybe Undersigil will work ...

[Uriel]

If hardware weren't an issue I'd definitely say Bloodlines. Best RPG I've played in years. Deus Ex is superb. Definitely one to get if you have an older PC.

[Dorkus]

Yes, Wiz8 is very much on the opposite side of the combat -----roleplay spectrum to PST. Personally, I hated it.

Heh, well, to each his own.

Honestly, I don't really remember much about wiz8's story. I'm the type that skips through all fo the dialog and only reads back when there's something specific I need to discover. So I have no idea if wiz8 is strong in immersion (though I've heard from others, especially others who have played the wiz series for a bit, that it is).

In combat and character development, however, wiz 8 simply rules supreme. I was surprised by this becuase it's a first person party-based rpg. But the number of strategic/tactical options in the game are simply mind-boggling; you have to approach it more as a RTW type of game than a PST.

For example, big on maces? Make a 3 man lord party, and hunt out diamond eyes in the hidden crypt in the mountain wilderness. Like ninjas and fairies? Solo a fairie ninja, sneak over to the rat king, pump yourself up with as many uber potions as you can get, and whack him in the back of the head to get his cane of corpus. Liek the rogue backstab ability? Well, find and equip bloodlust, and suddenly not only do you have a rogue, but you have one who can berserk like a fighter -- meaning up to 8x damage per blow (and the extra swings/attacks provided by bloodlust's intiaitve boost!)

The game is superbly well-designed because it gives you a lot of interesting tactical/development/equipment options. And it's not just all randomly thrown in there -- specific equipment/development strategies are optimal for specific races/classes. Finally, the game is HARD. Unlike most modern rpgs, the strategies and tactics you use actually really really matter. And if you've got a faerie fighter wielding a dagger (since faeries can wield very few normal-sized weapons), you will actually be punished for your bad development choice.

Contrast other modern rpgs -- the kotors, morrowinds, jade empires, fables, (and even the latest Dungeon Siege!)... where the emphasis is on "immersion" and "story." Well, one way to kill the immersion factor is to kill off the player's party for making poor development/class choices. Unfortunately, for those of us who put some thought into our games, this makes the experience rather dull. It's not a game any more -- it's a doll-dressing simulation.

Wiz8 (and possibly the gothic series) is perhaps the only game that deviates from this course in the past half decade. And it does so in spectacular fashion. I highly recommend it for anyone looking for a more cerebral rpg. And one that actually poses some challenge.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Hmm, I just ordered Bloodlines from an Amazon marketplace seller for under 4 quid. If it's as good as you guys say, that's really quite startling.

[econ21]

Hmm, I just ordered Bloodlines from an Amazon marketplace seller for under 4 quid. If it's as good as you guys say, that's really quite startling.

Good purchase[1]. It's a crying shame that a company can produce something as good as that game and then go bust.

[1]BTW, one piece of advice when you get the game - do not play as a Malkavian on your first run through. You will appreciate the hilarious dialogue options much more if you have already played it straight.