Best MOD for MTW: VI

[EatYerGreens]

I don't think the progression of farms and mines was intntedned to be linked to castle development as that would have no factual basis in history,

That's correct but let me expand on my reasoning somewhat.

In the game, you increase your farms so as to get more revenue and bigger armies. In real life, you improved farms because you have a constantly growing population needing to be fed.

To my mind, the forts and castles represent the capital city of a region and the growth of the fortification reflects the growth of the city but also the population of the region as whole. So, first you have to increase the fort, then you increase the farms so as to support the expanded population.

I've not played a Viking campaign but I was fascinated to note that the first level of farm improvement was called 'forest clearing' and this is entirely appropriate for that era. Coincidentally, this came up in a documentary I watched today, where they pointed out that it took generations of effort to clear acres of mature forest (oaks, etc), using hand-axes, which can nowadays be done in hours, with the right machinery.

In a separate programme, I recently heard that the fabled 'Sherwood Forest' covered a huge swathe of central England, extending far to the north and south of its present-day remnant. So, it's reasonable to assume that in the era covered by the game, there is considerable woodland clearance still to be achieved. Indeed, you can draw on Elizabethan-era references to ancient woodland being hacked down to be turned into a navy fit to face the coming Armada.

One could regard the higher levels of output as representing this continuing process but also don't forget that some prime modern-day farming areas only exist because land drainage was employed to turn the Fens and the Somerset levels into useable land. I would guess that the windmill/water pump technology used for that was inspired by the techniques the Dutch developed, if not actually brought in by Dutch immigrants (William of Orange era), and thus way too late to fit with the MTW eras. Come to think of it, the poor output of Friesland in the game is probably a true reflection of how much of it was still under the North Sea, at the time.

I hope I'm not pushing this point too far but I'm arguing that the overall slow pace of land improvements means that Citadels should spring up before top-level farms. You need the increased manpower to progressively improve the lands and bigger capitals reflects this increased population.

Don't forget that the Normans built literally hundreds of motte & bailey forts, taking only a few months to finish each one and even substantial castles could go up in as little as 6 years (eg the ones in north Wales). I could even argue for reducing the build times on some of these structures.

Of course, historically, all this construction work would be done in parallel so, in that sense, you're perfectly right to say that fortifications per se should in no way be a reason to restrict farm improvements.However, the limitations of the game mean you must queue them one after another, which is something we just have to live with, at the moment.

I strongly suspect that the AI sequences the builds in order of cost. Thus I expect it to build 60% farms (1500) before it builds the castle (2000). Then, it will go off at a tangent and build all the building upgrades until the only items remaining are 80% farms (2500) and Citadel (8000), so 80% will come first. Basically, it's not going to arrive at citadels for well over a century into the game - even assuming it can afford the costs at every stage - if left to its own devices and there's many a player who has probably conquered the entire map in less time than that.

They would have had a relatively easy time of it too - small fortifications, short sieges, low level troop types. My suggestion is aimed at slowing down the player's progress with the economy and giving more time for the AI to develop, as well as redirecting AI priorities so that it gets stronger fortifications up sooner in the game, slowing the player's conquests even further and, with provinces secured all the better, it can sit back and boost its own economy and grow its armies but with better quality troops.

All in all, more historical in that no nation ever did get to conquer all of Europe in the middle ages. We can still try but there'll be less chance for 'rush' to succeed and no easy walkover battles either.

BTW best mod is Viking Hoardes XL mod, no contest.

If that's the one with the reduced trade income and more farms-based economies then that'll be the one I'd like to try first.