IGN Saxon preview

[Grey_Fox]

Looking at the videos now, looks interesting enough.

[Steppe Merc]

To me, it just looks very pathetic. Sea Raiders? On horses? Horses don't like being on boats.
And Chosen Axemen... again. Can't they get it into their heads that barbarians do not just have such stupid units!

[barocca]

(saxon keels)
Lightly equipped, .... Armed to the teeth...They are not heavily armoured or equipped

eh?

contradicting themselves repeatedly in one paragraph, that takes talent,
or a lazy editor...

B.

[barocca]

and once again

I AM NOT PAYING FOR STUFF THAT SHOULD BE FREE

high quality version of the video's requirng me to part with hard earned cash to view are not a good way of promoting BI.

B.

[TB666]

and once again

I AM NOT PAYING FOR STUFF THAT SHOULD BE FREE

high quality version of the video's requirng me to part with hard earned cash to view are not a good way of promoting BI.

B.

The free videos have good quality so get those.

[edyzmedieval]

What?!

The Castrum?! At Saxons?! OMG. This is really annoying.
Only the Romans had the Castrum!!!

[Steppe Merc]

edyzmedieval, I know that all that matters is the moddability. It doesn't stop me from being irritated by this sort of thing, though.

[SMZ]

eh?

contradicting themselves repeatedly in one paragraph, that takes talent,
or a lazy editor...

B.

In all fairness, there is a difference between arms and armor.

[edyzmedieval]

Come on Steppe Merc.

It doesn't matter the fantasy units, if the game is very moddable. It's easy to remove these fantasy units which are indeed very annoying, and also you can add new, historical units.

EDIT: Barocca is 2 times right. Contradictory information doesn't suit very well to a preview of a highly expected game. Second, CA doesn't have a marketing view. We shouldn't pay for stuff that it's supposed to be free.

[doc_bean]

It doesn't matter the fantasy units, if the game is very moddable. It's easy to remove these fantasy units which are indeed very annoying, and also you can add new, historical units.

This is silly imho, mods should add something to the game, not be the reason a game is worth playing. They might as well box the engine and sell it.

And I also refuse to pay for a patch. They admit they had to fix a lot of bugs for the expansion, the decent thing to do would be to release a patch for the people who won't buy the expansion. Maybe if that made Rome better I'd actually buy BI.

[KSEG]

This is silly imho, mods should add something to the game, not be the reason a game is worth playing. They might as well box the engine and sell it.

And I also refuse to pay for a patch. They admit they had to fix a lot of bugs for the expansion, the decent thing to do would be to release a patch for the people who won't buy the expansion. Maybe if that made Rome better I'd actually buy BI.

Well, they are releasing a patch for people who don't want to buy BI.
Although according to them "you should buy it because it rocks!"
Read the latest FAQ at totalwar.com.

[Casmin]

[QUOTE=Steppe Merc]To me, it just looks very pathetic. Sea Raiders? On horses? Horses don't like being on boats.
QUOTE]

I agree the sea raiders are a bit weak. However, you've confused me with 'Horses don't like being on boats.' Because I'm sure you're aware that horses were transported on boats even though they didn't like it.

[Taurus]

Just watched the two videos and they are both very cool, especially the effects on the second one. Very epic indeed.

[Steppe Merc]

I agree the sea raiders are a bit weak. However, you've confused me with 'Horses don't like being on boats.' Because I'm sure you're aware that horses were transported on boats even though they didn't like it.

Well, yes they were transported when they didn't like it. But horses need to be exercised a lot, and there often isn't a lot of room on boats. So a few could be transported, or more if on large boats. But they would have to be taken care of extremely well, otherwise, they'd be worthless in battle.
But I don't think an entire unit of horses would fit on a raiding boat of the Saxons, which is the main reason I thought it was silly.

[Casmin]

Well, yes they were transported when they didn't like it. But horses need to be exercised a lot, and there often isn't a lot of room on boats. So a few could be transported, or more if on large boats. But they would have to be taken care of extremely well, otherwise, they'd be worthless in battle.
But I don't think an entire unit of horses would fit on a raiding boat of the Saxons, which is the main reason I thought it was silly.

Understood! Horses also need a period of time to rest after the sea journey. So for them to be some kind of amphibious cavalry wouldn't be too accurate.

[TB666]

Well, yes they were transported when they didn't like it. But horses need to be exercised a lot, and there often isn't a lot of room on boats. So a few could be transported, or more if on large boats. But they would have to be taken care of extremely well, otherwise, they'd be worthless in battle.
But I don't think an entire unit of horses would fit on a raiding boat of the Saxons, which is the main reason I thought it was silly.

Stop nit-picking please.
Yes it is a bit unrealistic but don't forget that you have been able to do this on all the other TW-games. In VI you had raiders on horseback too.
If you don't like it then role-play it, don't build any calvary when you embark on a sea journey.
Gotta remember that TW is not suppose to be a simulator or a reenactment of history. It is a game(!!) where you change the course of history.

[Afro Thunder]

You know how turns last for 6 months? Well, in that time, I'm sure the horses have plenty of time to rest after getting off the ships.

[Steppe Merc]

Stop nit-picking please.
Yes it is a bit unrealistic but don't forget that you have been able to do this on all the other TW-games. In VI you had raiders on horseback too.
If you don't like it then role-play it, don't build any calvary when you embark on a sea journey.
Gotta remember that TW is not suppose to be a simulator or a reenactment of history. It is a game(!!) where you change the course of history.

Why shouldn't I nitpick? I have every right to point out CA's mistakes and innaccuracies. If you want to play a game that is inaccurate, fine. Don't assume everyone else does.

[TB666]

Why shouldn't I nitpick? I have every right to point out CA's mistakes and innaccuracies. If you want to play a game that is inaccurate, fine. Don't assume everyone else does.

Yes you do but there is a limit before it gets extremely annoying.
You are complaing about something that has been in all the TW-games and is something that will stay too for next games in the series.
If you have problem with the name of the unit then change it, it takes like 2 minutes.
Accept the fact that CA doesn't listen to you in this area and probably never will.The majority of the buyers have no problem with the game as it is, among them are history students like myself.
If you don't like it, fine then don't play the game and move on to something else.

[Zenicetus]

To me, it just looks very pathetic. Sea Raiders? On horses? Horses don't like being on boats.

I agree the sea raiders are a bit weak. However, you've confused me with 'Horses don't like being on boats.' Because I'm sure you're aware that horses were transported on boats even though they didn't like it.

Hey, they're "raiders", right? Once they land ashore, maybe they're stealing someone else's horses.

[Doug-Thompson]

If barbarians are almost all infantry, and

horse archers have been fixed, and

foot archers have not been changed to where they are more effective against Cantabrian circle, then:

The Huns will rule this game.

They'll subjegate all the barbarians, crush the Western Empire and ride from there.

[Sol Invictus]

We can only hope. The Huns should indeed be "The scourge of God" as they were known and they should definately be an absolute terror to all in their path, as they were historicly. The game would really be boring if the Goths could consistently smack down the Huns in the first few years of the game.

I don't think that the Barbarians lack some good melee cavalry except for the Saxons and the Alemanni. The Franks and Goths are suppose to have some fairly good shock cavalry so they will at least be able to put up some fight against the Huns.

[econ21]

If barbarians are almost all infantry, and horse archers have been fixed, and foot archers have not been changed to where they are more effective against Cantabrian circle, then: The Huns will rule this game. They'll subjegate all the barbarians, crush the Western Empire and ride from there.

Perhaps in the hands of the player. In the hands of the AI, the Huns may be like the Mongols in MTW - an initial challenge, but not a map subjugating (sp?) one. Remember, AI vs AI combat is done by referring to some aggregated combat factors in the auto-combat model. Details of the battlemap combat model like the virtual immunity of Cantabrian circle to foot archery[1] won't affect those outcomes.

[1] which I agree should be fixed!

[Conqueror]

It'll be interesting to see how effective the circle is vs crossbows. There's also the matter that all units seem to have much higher defense values in BI, so missile units will be able to inflict less casualties before running out of ammunition, unless they have been given larger quivers.

[Orda Khan]

If barbarians are almost all infantry, and

horse archers have been fixed, and

foot archers have not been changed to where they are more effective against Cantabrian circle, then:

The Huns will rule this game.

They'll subjegate all the barbarians, crush the Western Empire and ride from there.

HA are a nuisance, indeed and I for one was delighted to see them given their proper role....ie to release on the move. It was very easy in STW and MTW to cover the static HA with a unit or two of archers and I definitely do not want to go back to those days. I have just returned from a field archery shoot as it happens and an accurate shot at fifty metres, with a traditional bow ( I shoot a Hun bow ) is no easy task. If that target was moving at five to fifteen miles per hour it would prove nigh on impossible. The cantabrian circle is a great addition to HA tactics ( it looks spectacular too ) but HA alone are not going to win the battle. The Huns do not possess decent infantry and I would imagine their heavy cav will bettered by those of other factions. Up to this point I am not sure if they have archers and if this is the case, I can imagine them being easier to deal with than we think. Different tactics will be required and countering their infantry and cav while leaving some archer protection against the HA may be one option.
Archers are disadvantaged by the cantabrian circle and so they should be. If it were not the case the Huns would be a push over, just like the sorry Golden Horde in MTW. It will be very interesting to see a serious threat loom on the horizon I feel........I CAN'T WAIT FOR BI !!!!

........Orda

[Doug-Thompson]

I can't wait either. I'm just bracing myself for all the threads on "ARRRGH!! Horse Archers are WAY overpowered. This is terrible!" etc., etc.

It isn't that much of a problem in R:TW because the really good HA faction, the Parthians, start from a really weak position and almost immediately have to fight the Egyptians.

Simon Appleton certainly raises a good point about the AI, and the Conqueror also points out that BI infantry shouldn't be as lightly armored and shield-dependent as R:TW armies.

Still, I expect BI horse archers to be like pre-1.2 patch HA, only you have to use cantabrian circle for any faction except Parthia. This would be a very good, accurate fix, IMHO. It will, however, make a lot of infantry players mad.

We can't ignore, however, that this particular period is the beginning of a cavalry golden age.

Orda, I wish I had a chance to shoot a bow once in a while. I may go to the world horseback archery competition in Iowa next year as a spectator, if it's still going.