Abortion

[Revelation]

I've never really given much thought to abortion before, as it has never had any relevance in my life in any way shape or form, up until now that is.
A friend of mine has just been released from the hospital after a bout of day surgery for the above mentioned. As I was waiting for her I started thinking about the issues involved.
Is it moral? Hmm, not really sure if I am able to answer that one. I tried to think of it from more than my own standpoint. First line of thought was, is it murder? My initial response to my own question was no, of course not which led me to question the reasoning behind this assumption. I immediately thought of my youngest child. My little boy, aged 2 1/2. I thought, well if my wife had of said after the first two kids, she could not proceed/cope with this one and gone ahead and had the abortion then my little man would not be here today.
Clearly murder when you can put a personality to the victim.
But, and theres always a but right?
At what age is the foetus considered a living entity with rights as a human being? Can the unborn child be considered a victim?
Wow, what have I done. How can I answer this question?
After about an hour of continuous thought (no mean feat for me ) I decided to take the cowards way out.
I believe, ultimately, after all avenues of discussion are exhausted, the final decision must rest squarely in the hands of the woman carrying. I can see both sides of the coin here and find it difficult to park myself firmly on either side of the fence.
Oh what a joy to be born on the male side of the road.
Any thoughts?
(please try to keep religion out of it as it will only lead to trouble for all concerned. It really has no place in this debate)

[bmolsson]

Clearly murder when you can put a personality to the victim.

If your son grows up and become a new Hitler, does that make you a mass murderer as well ?

Your logic doesn't really fit in to reality. You don't know what you are dealing with until it's born, and actually not even then.......

[Duke of Gloucester]

If your son grows up and become a new Hitler, does that make you a mass murderer as well ?

Is the logic here that it is ok to murder young children just in case they turn out to be another Hilter? I can see how you might disagree with Revelations uncertainties about this issue, but how logical is this statement?

[bmolsson]

Is the logic here that it is ok to murder young children just in case they turn out to be another Hilter? I can see how you might disagree with Revelations uncertainties about this issue, but how logical is this statement?

No logic at all, just as there are no logic to call abortion murder.....

[Duke of Gloucester]

Both pro-life and pro-choice positions are logical, just derived from different initial premisses. This is why argument between the two sides is fruitless. You can disagree a pro-life position, but anyone who says it is not based on logic does not understand the arguments.

[Revelation]

No logic at all, just as there are no logic to call abortion murder.....

Care to elaborate?

[PanzerJaeger]

If a woman does not want a child, she should not concieve. Its as simple as that.

When it gets to the point where she has to have someone tear her living child out of her own womb, its too late - and murder.

With adoption and modern social services, there is but one legitimate cause for an abortion - to save the mother's life. In such a case, a utilitarian approach must be taken.

Oh and..

(please try to keep religion out of it as it will only lead to trouble for all concerned. It really has no place in this debate)

It has as much a place in this debate as your opinion or mine.

[bmolsson]

Care to elaborate?

The fetus doesn't have the legal status of being alive, hence it can't be murdered.

[Meneldil]

At what age is the foetus considered a living entity with rights as a human being? Can the unborn child be considered a victim?

I think this question has to be answered by the authorities (=by the law), depending of rational thoughts as well as tradition.

[Soulforged]

I think this question has to be answered by the authorities (=by the law), depending of rational thoughts as well as tradition.

Since the treaty signed on a convention on Costa Rica (i don't remember the year very well but it has to be after the 60's) the human being is considered like one since the moment of conception (this brings up certain other concecuenses), wich means the union of the espermatozoide with the ovum. But you should look at your own law for this. This is only mine. The rights of the will-to-be human being are considered irrebocables since the birth (he has to live only for a few seconds, that's all).

The only exception, because of this, prevented on our criminal code from abortion, is the case when the life of the mother is seriously menaced if the fetus keeps growing or if he borns. And to the contrary of what Gawain may think there exists cases of this type, being one of them when a child of 9 years (that already happened here) gets pregnant and obviously her body is not prepared to give birth to the child, for instance the doctors must recommend abortion.

If you ask to me the fetus is only considered a person (and entity who can adquire rights) when it's born. But that's my opinion, sure that someone with medical education may have a word or two on that.