Elephants

[Kraxis]

If Europe had had a supply of elephants we can be sure that they would have been tried out at least in the early medieval times. But since the Muslims blocked the way to all areas of elephants there was no chance to get them other than as curiosities (I believe one of the Caliphs sent one to Charlemagne as a gift).
And since the Muslims didn't us them there wasn't any tradition of fighting with or against them. So in essence the rulers of Europe hardly knew that they could be used for warfare (a few might have read about the Punic Wars).

[Meneldil]

Kubylai Khan had a whole lot of Elephants in his army, and he fought people whose armies were basically mostly made of Elephants (in Indochina), according to Marco Polo.

[lars573]

I think the Ghaznavids and maybe the Khwarizmians used war elephants in the middle ages. But the Moslem and Hindu states of India used war elephants in the middle ages. So did the Khemer and Champans.

[King Henry V]

Elephants were used in India right on into the 18th century. IIRC they were used at the Battle of Plassey.

[AntiochusIII]

War elephants were used in India and Southeast Asia for a long time. Both areas have long traditions of war elephants, and they were often used (at least in Southeast Asia) as "royal/nobility" mounts. There're also a lot of tradition about kings and princes "dueling" each other while riding elephant mounts. In fact, white elephants (a rarity) are sacred in several Southeast Asian countries.

However, despite their destructive effects and apparent strength and awe they have; the Mongols could easily defeat these war elephants once they knew how to scare them, and make the elephants run amok. Kublai's forces in Southeast Asia were fighting an old Burma kingdom, I think, and wrecked it completely (the old "Thai" and "Khmer" kingdoms were spared because they agreed to become the Khan's vassals - Vietnam, of course, was conquered - the northern part of it, at least) And of course, anyone who fought Indian forces in ancient times faced war elephants, and the Indians used them against each other often enough.

[edyzmedieval]

But, did the Turks or other people have elephants?!

I mean, Elephants, but they have to exist as far as Syria. This si for the Byzantium mod, cuz we want to know if it's historical to include elephants, and to whom.

[Watchman]

I know the Arabs had to deal with Persian war 'fants during the "Islamic blitzkrieg", but I've also gotten the impression later Persian dynasties didn't bother with the buggers. Might as well; the critters tend to be logistical and tactical nightmares, and not worth much anything - rather more of a hindrance - against any enemy who'd figured out how to deal with the critters. The Mongols seem to have figured it out halfway through their first encounter with them (although I understand the sounthern-most Chinese mini-dynasty also employed the big lugs to some extent, so they would actually have had some prior experience), for example. More to the point, Mesopotamia and Iran were overran by "horse peoples" from the steppes who, even after relatively settling down, would seem like somewhat unlikely candidates to bother with the big beasts except perhaps as prestige pieces. Horses worked by far better and were much closer tot their hearts anyway.

Assorted Indian lords, including the Turkic Mughals, seem to always have had a thing for elephants, but then again the animals were by far easier to come by there in the first place...

[lars573]

But, did the Turks or other people have elephants?!

I mean, Elephants, but they have to exist as far as Syria. This si for the Byzantium mod, cuz we want to know if it's historical to include elephants, and to whom.

It's not historical to have any faction out side of Islamic Persian states to have elephant units. See the lion and elephant populations of Syria and the elephant and lion populations of north africa were all rendered extinct by 3 centruies of Roman rule. By the time even BI starts they were gone, exterminated by the Roman bloodlust in the arena. Persian states could get elephants trained for war from India, infact that's where the Sassanids in BI will get them from.