The Nature of Man

[The_Mark]

What is the nature of man? Is the basic nature of man good or evil, or something else? What is the view of the Backroom's great minds on this matter?

I haven't seen a thread on good old philosophy around here for a while during my Backroom-lurking (except for the Flying Spaghetti Monster Club), and having a debate over the matter in debating class (having picked the easy subject with my friend ), so I thought to get a thread of it in here.

[bmolsson]

Nature of man is curious, struggling and with a strong will to do something better......

[A.Saturnus]

Taken strictly, the nature of man is no subject for philosophy but psychology.

[The_Mark]

Yes, it is a psychological question, but it's also a quite strong philosophical subject. For example, one of the basic principles of existentialism is that the essence of humanity is what a person decides to make out of it for him/herself, the person is free (and forced) to select his/her nature. Sciences tend to overlap, particularly when a subject (and sciences) can be defined in many ways.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Old Willy had it down pretty good.

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

[Aenlic]

Warning. Thread hijacking in progress. Warning.

Willy didn't write it. Edward de Vere, the 17th Earl of Oxford, wrote it.

http://www.shakespeare-oxford.com/

Besides, I prefer the soliloquy of Jacques from As You Like It

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the canon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

[Pindar]

Following after Bard quotes;


And since you know you cannot see yourself,
so well as by reflection, I, your glass,
will modestly discover to yourself,
that of yourself which you yet know not of.

So regardless your natural state:


Assume a virtue, if you have it not.

[Hurin_Rules]

Man? Bad. But woman, now that's just all good.

[Silver Rusher]

The nature of man? Recite the 7 deadly sins and add "curious" to the end and you have pretty well got it.

[yesdachi]

Man? Bad. But woman, now that's just all good.

That’s not too far off from what I was thinking!

Nearly everything we do is focused on gaining favor from those we desire. Our curiosity, love of conflict, desire to accumulate things, etc. are all to attract attention from a possible mate. Perhaps the animal instinct to procreate drives us or maybe the nature of man is love?

Now, back to the love of conflict!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
Man? Bad. But woman, now that's just all good.

You have got to be kidding. Ever since Eve women have been nothing but trouble. How many fights have been started between men over women? Men who would otherwise be great freinds.

Besides isnt this a woman

[Kagemusha]

You have got to be kidding. Ever since Eve women have been nothing but trouble. How many fights have been started between men over women? Men who would otherwise be great freinds.

Besides isnt this a woman

Gawain i believe that is a blue whale in bikini.Do you have any proof that she is really a woman?

[Ser Clegane]

We should amend
the forum rules to´
allow for a 2-point
warning for such
pictures

[yesdachi]

GAH! I'm Blind! I'm BLIND!!!

[PanzerJaeger]

The nature of man is greed, which isnt as bad as some people make it out to be.

[Devastatin Dave]

The nature of man is sin, but through Christ Jesus, you can be saved...

[Reverend Joe]

The nature of man is sin, but through Christ Jesus, you can be saved...

Is that a joke? Are you suggesting that mankind can be saved by the very thing that is tearing us apart? By the very force that has enslaved and killed more people than communism, facism, and naziism combined?

Anyway, I would love to post here, but I am not in a philosophical mood (too tired), and I'll just end up getting into a brainless argument with someone (probably Devastain Dave here). I will return when I have eaten and rested.

[Devastatin Dave]

Is that a joke? Are you suggesting that mankind can be saved by the very thing that is tearing us apart? By the very force that has enslaved and killed more people than communism, facism, and naziism combined?

Anyway, I would love to post here, but I am not in a philosophical mood (too tired), and I'll just end up getting into a brainless argument with someone (probably Devastain Dave here). I will return when I have eaten and rested.

Yawn...

[Devastatin Dave]

Is that a joke? Are you suggesting that mankind can be saved by the very thing that is tearing us apart? By the very force that has enslaved and killed more people than communism, facism, and naziism combined?

Anyway, I would love to post here, but I am not in a philosophical mood (too tired), and I'll just end up getting into a brainless argument with someone (probably Devastain Dave here). I will return when I have eaten and rested.

I guess since I'm allowed to have a "brainless arguement" you can have you rignorant, intolerant, bigotted rant. The fact is communism and socialistic ideaologies have casued more death than any religious belief, both communism and socialism allieing closer to athiestic beliefs. God also rested, so enjoy yours. Jesus still loves you.

[PanzerJaeger]

By the very force that has enslaved and killed more people than communism, facism, and naziism combined?

Did you just pull that one of the bottom of your shoe or do you really believe that tripe?

[Papewaio]

Actually God has 'killed' the most... he made them all their bodies mortal to start with...

[Strike For The South]

Actually God has 'killed' the most... he made them all their bodies mortal to start with...

God gives us free will and sadly many men are lead into temptation

[Soulforged]

Maybe we should ask that question that had been asked by the script writer of Planescape: Torment.

"What can change the nature of a man?"

If anybody can answer that, then he'll be close to the response.

[Papewaio]

Who can change the nature of man?

Themselves. Change starts with an idea. that gets acted upon.

FAB = Focus Achieve Become.

[Soulforged]

I guess since I'm allowed to have a "brainless arguement" you can have you rignorant, intolerant, bigotted rant. The fact is communism and socialistic ideaologies have casued more death than any religious belief, both communism and socialism allieing closer to athiestic beliefs. God also rested, so enjoy yours. Jesus still loves you.

Do you know that Jesus had socialists tendences? Anyway, this question has nothing to do with this thread, and the question is stupid. Ideas don't shape the world, action does and man.

[Soulforged]

Who can change the nature of man?

Themselves. Change starts with an idea. that gets acted upon.

FAB = Focus Achieve Become.

Not actions. To me is any action that goes against it mortality and inherent passion for individualness. So i guess if that is what i think then i had been always agains the nature of man. Really to me the man is just his genes and his biography, i'm for the historic theory, but the genes could be manipulated, so to me the man is neither inherentely mortal or good or bad.

[Papewaio]

Ideas don't shape the world, action does and man.

I agree it is the actions that shape the world.

I see ideas as the map and compass for these actions. Those who can think ahead can use their energy more effectively.

[Papewaio]

Not actions. To me is any action that goes against it mortality and inherent passion for individualness. So i guess if that is what i think then i had been always agains the nature of man. Really to me the man is just his genes and his biography, i'm for the historic theory, but the genes could be manipulated, so to me the man is neither inherentely mortal or good or bad.

We are mortal not because it is impossible to be immortal. It just isn't an efficient use of energy making ourselves immortal from ageing if on the savannah we get eaten on average by age 30.

The energy that would be diverted for prehistoric animals to become immortal would be better used in just surviving the environment. If an animal was immune to predators then I guess they can evole an immortal variant... however immortality (immunity to aging) will then mean that the animal has to compete against its own offspring that are immortal. In the end the mortal variants may prove more powerful and kill off the ones with eternal youth.

Genes are only half the story, environment and learning gives a better picture on the nature of man.

[Soulforged]

Genes are only half the story, environment and learning gives a better picture on the nature of man.

I agree, but i also said hitory didn't I. And I personally will like pretty much being immortal (yes i meant being immune to aging, but also to deceases and poison), don't know about you? Does this say something about our nature, of course, the old premise, we're curious, i'm not an exception.

[Papewaio]

As far as our genes are concerned they want more in the environment... so more copies is their aim.

Living longer increases the number of copies, as does having longer lifespan.