50

[Red Harvest]

About the looting, abominable. However, that is not uncommon in blackouts either or other disasters of this nature. Whenever people know the police are busy, the worst elements take advantage of it.

Bigger point: Considering how long it is likely to be before power is back on and water is running, it might make some sense to have *organized* gathering of produce from area markets, before they spoil. Distribute them to folks who have nothing in shelters etc. The food will be worthless if left where it is. (Isn't going to work for meats...but for fruits and veggies, and cheese, and milk etc...

Local supermarkets with much water damage will likely have to write off all their canned goods anyway, so organizing a martial law distribution system might provide, without being destructive. It wouldn't introduce any extra losses to the grocers, and in fact might reduce them.

[Redleg]

Well if anyone is interested in the photo's coming out of New Orleans to the Florida Panhandle concerning the Hurricane - here is a Fox News Link - other photos are also available - but the Fox site links the levy breaks on both the lake and the River.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167781,00.html

A friend of mine at work has family outside of New Orleans - it seems from the updates he is getting from family is that the city is filling up with water - and the pumps are are backwashing - inother words the pumps can not pump the water out.

The death toll on this is not going to be small - its probably going to be one of the biggest we ever had in the States. In New Orleans they are not counting yet - because they are in the midst of trying to evac the remaining living citizens first.

[Papewaio]

Black people loot, white people find?

looting a grocery store

Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Black people loot, white people find?

looting a grocery store

Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda

Is this REALLY the proper time to bring up racial inequalites in the media, pape?

[Roark]

At first, I thought to myself "that's racism!" and I was prepared to point a finger of blame at the screen and gibber about civil rights, but...

...the black kid's got a much bigger haul than the white couple...

[Strike For The South]

ya he does

[Papewaio]

Is this REALLY the proper time to bring up racial inequalites in the media, pape?

Considering half this thread is about looting and about what should happen to the looters. I think it is the exact proper time to point out how we are portraying people. Afterall in a disaster zone looters get shot while residents get helped...

[sharrukin]

IMO, its not looting when you have a disaster and people need food and water. Stealing non-essentials is another thing and should be dealt with harshly. Many criminals are taking advantage of the situation to loot and pillage businesses and homes.

From what I have heard they have lost one of the most important pumping stations and things look to get worse. It looks to be some time before the water will be able to be removed.

[Red Harvest]

My understanding is that the pumping stations were intended for heavy rains and such, not for levies giving way.

[sharrukin]

My understanding is that the pumping stations were intended for heavy rains and such, not for levies giving way.

Well they are certainly overwhelmed. Those stations are needed for the draining of New Orleans when the Corp of Engineers gets the levees repaired. They have a million people evacuated and more of them are going to be in financial trouble as time goes by. They are saying it may be weeks or even months before they will be able to return.

[bmolsson]

Really sad....

[Meneldil]

Any news atm ? From what I read in french news, there are hundreds of dead.

[Adrian II]

Any news atm ? From what I read in french news, there are hundreds of dead.

I guess nobody really knows what goes on in such a huge territory. In New Orleans (which is featured most by U.S. and world media) the water is still rising, and so is the misery. It is probably going to take weeks before people can move back in and months before the major damage has been restored.

[Devastatin Dave]

I heard this morning that this one will cost more than 911.

[Red Harvest]

I heard this morning that this one will cost more than 911.

No big surprise there. 9/11 was confined to a couple of major structures. This took out one major and several smaller cities. Not to mention towns and houses across a huge swath extending well inland.

The financial hit for those who lost home/business etc. will be hard, but this could have been far worse. Had Katrina hit New Orleans as a Category 5 and not weakened and drifted East, many of the people now being evacuated would instead be dead. That was what I feared. Fortunately, the levies were not topped in that way, and instead there has been a more gradual filling of the basin.

I hope the final death toll will be less than 1,000. At this point it is anyone's guess.

[Devastatin Dave]

No big surprise there. 9/11 was confined to a couple of major structures. This took out one major and several smaller cities. Not to mention towns and houses across a huge swath extending well inland.

The financial hit for those who lost home/business etc. will be hard, but this could have been far worse. Had Katrina hit New Orleans as a Category 5 and not weakened and drifted East, many of the people now being evacuated would instead be dead. That was what I feared. Fortunately, the levies were not topped in that way, and instead there has been a more gradual filling of the basin.

I hope the final death toll will be less than 1,000. At this point it is anyone's guess.

We will have to see considering the disease and toxic water. There are a lot of chemical plants and considering the failure of the levy and pumping systems, i doubt the chemical facilities were prepared for this disaster either.

[Red Harvest]

We will have to see considering the disease and toxic water. There are a lot of chemical plants and considering the failure of the levy and pumping systems, i doubt the chemical facilities were prepared for this disaster either.

It has been my understanding since this weekend that the New Orleans pumps were not meant for submergence like this. They were to prevent flooding from the torrential rains, not pump out from burst levies or overtopped levies. The concern before the storm hit was that the pumps would be submerged, meaning they could not be used. Some of those fears have apparently been realized.

My concern about the water would be from the raw sewage and dead critters, more than chemicals. As for the refineries and chemical plants, most structures are designed for hurrricane force winds greater than what Katrina hit with. They also have flood plans that call for shutting everything down and blocking it in. Most stuff you would sorry about will be in pressure vessels that are unlikely to be destroyed by the storm. The damage to the plants could be severe without major releases. Instead you would probably have releases from sheared piping (things knocking it free.) As far as danger from chemicals/pesticides I would be more concerned about all the small releases from submerged businesses, homes, vehicles, etc.

I don't think many of the refineries are below sea level like the city itself. The ones I've worked with had levies with the river of course.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It seems to have had an immeadiate effect on the price of gas as it went up 50 cents here overnight to 3 dollars and 30 cents for regular.

[Adrian II]

Man, it is looking worse by the hour. According to NO Mayor Nagin a 'couple hundred thousand people' were left behind and will now have to be evacuated. The whole city must be emptied a.s.a.p. and it may be months before inhabitants can return. There is no official Louisiana estimate of deaths. According to Nagin rescue workers are ordered to push any bodies aside and concentrate on saving the survivors. Together with the continuing rise of flood waters, the looting, the toxic gumbo, the picture is bleak indeed.

[Devastatin Dave]

The question has to be asked... is it worth trying to rebuild this city?

[Red Harvest]

The question has to be asked... is it worth trying to rebuild this city?

It will be rebuilt, but I think it might have to establish some population limits and habitability zones etc. And it obviously needs some huge "shelter-in-place" centers designed specifically for the purpose. There is a lot of industry dependent on the area, because of the oil, because of the river, not to mention its culture, etc.

If you don't rebuild it, where are you going to move everything? You can't transport them to the middle of Iowa permanently.

[PanzerJaeger]

It should be rebuilt in a slightly different area if possible.

A diagram of New Orleans shows how precarious the situation of the city was. Of course its understandable that it grew up over hundreds of years and it was never planned to be such a huge urban area, but if we are going to have to start over, its not fiscally responsible to rebuild it in what amounts to a bowl kept dry with pumps.

[Dâriûsh]

Between this and what happened in Baghdad it has been a terrible week. God have mercy on them all.

I bet KFC and Church's didn't stand a chance either down there...

Do you really think that racist humour is appropriate in this situation?

[Devastatin Dave]

Between this and what happened in Baghdad it has been a terrible week. God have mercy on them all.





Do you really think that racist humour is appropriate in this situation?

I love fried chicken and I'm from the South like the folks looting. What's racist about southern humor? Maybe you have inner racist thoughts of your own.

[Strike For The South]

They are now reports of rape and urban warfae in the city I hope this gets under control and the rescures and the aid gets where it needs to get to

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Apparently, one segment of the "didn't evacuate" crowd was a goup staying behind for discount shopping. Sad really.

Sadder still is a death toll rumored to be in the thousands in New Orleans alone. Hard numbers will have to wait until the waters are pumped out (25-45 days) and the dead are recoverable.

Side note. "Fats Domino" is rumored to be among those who didn't escape the flood waters. This is, as yet, unconfirmed.


Seamus

[Strike For The South]

oh wait need more info n/m

[Red Harvest]

Apparently, one segment of the "didn't evacuate" crowd was a goup staying behind for discount shopping. Sad really.

I think that crowd will be sorely disappointed. I think once the place is evacuated, their dwellings will end up bull dozed without them ever having the chance to come back home. Seriously, I think the mess will be so great by the time the water is pumped out that people might not be allowed to come back in before demolition. Just a guess though.